Strengthening the Sacred Covenant of Marriage

### Bible Study Discussion Guide

#### Bible Reading
1. **Ephesians 5:25-33 (NIV)**
> Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church—for we are members of his body. “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.” This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

2. **Proverbs 27:17 (NIV)**
> As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.

3. **1 Corinthians 13:4-7 (NIV)**
> Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

#### Observation Questions
1. According to Ephesians 5:25-33, how are husbands instructed to love their wives, and what is the comparison made to illustrate this love?
2. In Proverbs 27:17, what metaphor is used to describe the impact of relationships on personal growth?
3. How does 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 define love, and what are some of the key characteristics mentioned?
4. In the sermon, what were some of the practical steps mentioned to nurture and strengthen a marriage? [42:17 ]

#### Interpretation Questions
1. How does the comparison of marriage to the relationship between Christ and the Church in Ephesians 5:25-33 deepen our understanding of the marital covenant?
2. What does Proverbs 27:17 suggest about the importance of community and accountability in a marriage? How can this be applied practically? [01:00:32 ]
3. Reflecting on 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, how can the characteristics of love listed in this passage be applied to resolve conflicts within a marriage?
4. The sermon emphasized the importance of open communication in marriage. Why is understanding different communication styles crucial for a healthy relationship? [51:31 ]

#### Application Questions
1. Ephesians 5:25-33 calls for a sacrificial love in marriage. What are some specific ways you can demonstrate this kind of love to your spouse this week?
2. Proverbs 27:17 highlights the role of community in personal growth. Who are the people in your life that sharpen you, and how can you intentionally seek their counsel to strengthen your marriage? [01:00:32 ]
3. Considering 1 Corinthians 13:4-7, identify one characteristic of love that you find challenging. What practical steps can you take to cultivate this characteristic in your marriage?
4. The sermon discussed the importance of setting healthy boundaries with external relationships. Are there any boundaries you need to establish or reinforce to protect your marital bond? [01:02:49 ]
5. Reflect on a recent conflict you had with your spouse. How can you apply the principles of open communication and understanding different communication styles to address and resolve this conflict? [51:31 ]
6. The sermon mentioned the power of prayer and devotion within marriage. How can you and your spouse incorporate regular prayer and devotion time into your daily routine to strengthen your spiritual connection? [01:09:50 ]
7. Accountability was highlighted as vital for a healthy marriage. What steps can you take to build or enhance accountability in your relationship, and who can you invite to hold you accountable? [01:00:32 ]

Day 1: Covenant Love Reflects Divine Commitment
Marriage is not just a legal agreement but a sacred covenant that mirrors the love Christ has for the Church. It is a relationship that calls for a sacrificial love, where the needs of one's spouse are placed above one's own. This kind of love is not self-seeking but is rooted in mutual respect and a godly commitment that is unwavering in the face of life's challenges. It is a love that is willing to serve wholeheartedly and to prioritize the well-being of the other, even when it requires personal sacrifice. This covenant love is a testament to the divine design of marriage, where two become one in a union that is meant to be a reflection of God's love for humanity.

Ephesians 5:25-27 "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish."

Reflection: How can you demonstrate covenant love to your spouse today in a way that reflects Christ's love for the Church?

Day 2: Communication Bridges Hearts
The lifeblood of any marriage is communication. It is through sharing our thoughts, feelings, and experiences that we connect with our spouse on a deeper level. Effective communication requires intentionality and patience, as well as an understanding that our partner may perceive and process information differently. Bridging communication gaps is essential for fostering a deeper connection and ensuring that both partners feel heard and understood. It is through this open dialogue that intimacy is nurtured, and the bond of marriage is strengthened.

James 1:19 "Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger;"

Reflection: What is one way you can improve your listening skills to better understand your spouse's perspective?

Day 3: Growth Through Conflict
Conflict within marriage should not be viewed as a sign of failure but rather as an opportunity for growth. When couples face challenges together and learn from them, they can strengthen their bond and reflect the redemptive power of Christ's love in their relationship. It is through navigating these difficulties that couples can develop resilience and a deeper understanding of one another. Conflict resolution, approached with grace and forgiveness, can lead to a more robust and loving partnership.

Colossians 3:13 "Bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive."

Reflection: What is a recent conflict you've had with your spouse, and how can you approach it as an opportunity for growth?

Day 4: Intimacy Honors the Marital Covenant
The sanctity of the marital bed is a crucial aspect of the covenant between husband and wife. Intimacy should be approached with a willingness to understand and meet each other's needs, fostering a healthy physical relationship. This requires open dialogue and a commitment to maintaining the health of the physical connection between spouses. By honoring this aspect of marriage, couples can deepen their unity and express their love in a way that honors God's design for the marital relationship.

Hebrews 13:4 "Let marriage be held in honor among all, and let the marriage bed be undefiled, for God will judge the sexually immoral and adulterous."

Reflection: How can you and your spouse work together to maintain the sanctity and health of your physical relationship?

Day 5: Community Strengthens Marriage
Accountability and community play a vital role in supporting a healthy marriage. By surrounding ourselves with godly counsel and couples who exemplify Christ-centered relationships, we can gain wisdom and encouragement. These relationships provide a support system that can help us persevere through trials and celebrate victories. The community acts as a mirror, reflecting the areas where we can grow and the ways in which we can strengthen our marriage.

Proverbs 15:22 "Without counsel plans fail, but with many advisers they succeed."

Reflection: Who in your community can you reach out to for wisdom and support in your marriage?

[Applause]

All right, all right, here we go. We're going to have some fun today. As you can tell, things are a little bit different. I've got six lovely people up here; they're going to do all of the heavy lifting today. I really get the day off. It's fantastic! I love this. We should do this every Sunday.

But here's what's going to happen: a little disclaimer for you. If you are single in the room, we're going to be talking about a lot of conflict in marriage and stuff, and it may make you feel like, "I ain't never getting married," because this stuff is rough. Don't go there, okay? This is great tools for how you can go from a love on the rocks to love on the rock. We really want to make sure that we are building our relationships on a healthy and strong foundation.

So if you're single listening to this today, two things: one, take some notes because this is what you want to do going forward so that you have a healthy relationship down the road. But also, hold tight because next week is going to be all about you. You will be the center of the universe next Sunday. It's going to be great!

But for now, we're really going to dive into some conflicts and some struggles in marriage. We've invited six of our marriage counselors here at CLC to help us in this conversation, and I'm going to introduce them in a moment. But to get this thing started, this is not just about us answering questions we came up with. We want you to be able to add your voice to what we're doing today.

On the screen, you see the QR code and the website link. You can actually submit your own questions, and we will do our best to get through as many of those today as possible. Any questions we can't answer in the room, we're going to be answering on our podcast between sermons later this week. I will tell you, we had like 30 questions we couldn't get to last service alone, so we're going to have a very packed podcast this week. It's going to be great!

To kick things off, though, if you go to that link right now, we actually have a poll that I would love for you to participate in. Our poll question is: what do you think is most important in a healthy marriage? I would love your opinion on that. What do you think is most important in a healthy marriage? Great sex, open communication, compatibility, or quality time?

I'm pretty sure somebody on our team said that we should just put great sex for all of the responses, but what do you think is most important in a healthy marriage? While you're doing that, we're going to turn our attention to these lovely three couples.

What's really awesome about this group is this is what they do. Their passion is helping couples have healthy marriages. What I love is that they have all demonstrated over the years the health and the strength of their own marriages, and they have built their relationships on a solid foundation.

So what you're going to be receiving today is not just their thoughts and their advice, but you're going to be getting biblical wisdom, biblical counsel from a Christian perspective. It's just a solid foundation to be able to build off of. One of the cool things, too, is that I think they have over a hundred years of marriage experience represented on this stage combined.

Somebody on this stage has actually been married longer than I've been alive. I won't name names or anything like that, but someone on the stage has been married longer. So let's see those results. What do you think is most important in a healthy marriage? Results? Drum roll? No drum roll? Oh, there's results! Open communication: 77%. All right, all right. Oh, compatibility just dropped down a little bit. Somebody changed their vote; they're like, "Oh, I got to vote with everybody else."

I think that is great, and we're going to be talking a lot today about communication and how to have healthy communication. Our very first question, I'm actually going to throw this at Wes and Nisha. Here's the question for you: healthy space in marriage, what is that? Me time? What does that look like?

So that is a loaded question. Yeah, a little bit, it's loaded. I'm going to start out, and I know Nisha because we actually talked about this. So first, yes to the answer: you do need healthy space. There should be some me time included in all of that. But the question I would ask is, why are you asking? That's important.

Do you need healthy space because they're getting on your nerves? You don't like them anymore? You're going through some mental or personal struggles on yourself that have nothing to do with your spouse? What is the reason that you're asking for that space? Those things need to be talked about; those things need to be dealt with.

Of course, we all need a little time by ourselves. Fellas need time together to watch the game. Are the Bears playing today? No? I don't think so. The Bears ain't playing today. We all need some time to ourselves, whatever that looks like for you.

But I think the most important question would be the why. Why are you saying we need some space? We thought that was funny. People ask us because we spend a lot of time together in terms of space. But I'll say healthy space in your mind is what's the key.

Then what you define as space, like what said. There are some people that prefer to go on a girlfriend trip for like seven days and seven nights to Jamaica or something. That's not me. So what is the kind of space you're reasoning? As long as you two are in a healthy space, then you will be good. But if you are in an unhealthy space and you're like, "I just need my space," what does that mean?

So be intentional about your why, but then also define what the word space means. Do you need to have separate bedrooms? Do you not talk to each other throughout the day? Do you pass each other because you just need your space?

Now, mind you, wives, I had to learn: don't bamboozle your spouse when they walk through the door. You might work, and they might work, but if they walk through the door and you have a honey-do list, give me a minute. That little space is understandable.

So I had to learn that. Don't just walk in. Wes walks through the door, "Hey babe, can you go to the store? Can you put some gas in the car? Can you pick up the kids?" That's not giving your spouse a little bit of space. Give them a moment to regroup, and then come together and talk about what you need.

So spaces are different. Now, I just want to touch on one thing: safe places, which we got permission from Kiana, is another thing. If you have a safe place with your spouse, you won't need a lot of space. So be intentional about making your home of your heart the safest place for your spouse to be, and then the spaces that you have in between will make you long for each other more.

I like that. That's really good. I've got to go to an audience question because I feel like our audience right now is mostly female, because if it was mostly male, this question would have been voted much, much higher on the list. But I have to ask it because I'm holding the iPad: will women ever be able to say exactly what they want or mean?

You're welcome! You're welcome! And that's an open question. Anyone wants to jump at that one? Come on!

All right, I don't know the answer to that, but what I do know is that if my husband loves me enough, and if you as the spouse love them enough and you desire to understand them, you will work around that. I work with students every day, and it's my intention as the instructor to meet them where they are.

So I can't just teach to a visual learner. I can't just teach because that's the way I teach. I can't just teach to a kinesthetic learner because that's the way I teach. If I love them and want them to do well, I need to learn how they learn or I need to learn how they talk.

So it is your responsibility, if you don't understand, to be able to listen differently and to listen without offense. I think that's the hard thing because men want to know the answer, and sometimes we are working the answer out while we're saying it.

So it may take some time. It may take, "Let's have another conversation about this in 15 minutes when you change your mind." Don't say that part: "When you change your mind."

So I just think it comes down to open communication and what your love says to your wife when you try to understand. I don't think you all have it all together either, but our intention should be not the question.

Well, you know, there's a wonderful book out there if you guys want to use it as a resource. It's called "I Said, You Heard." What that means is sometimes because I say it doesn't mean Tim hears it the way I meant it.

We did this years ago. We watched this section two times in a row, and I heard that we were supposed to go online and take the assessment, and he heard, "No, we're not supposed to go online."

When you would think that when we sit there and listen to it intently, every word for 10 minutes, that we'd come up with the same answer? No.

So the reality is I would recommend in this whole thing of will my spouse hear it like I hear it? I think that's maybe what we're saying here. You've got to learn how that person's temperament and personality is affecting the way they hear.

I can't have unrealistic expectations that Tim is going to hear it the way I hear it because he's not. That's coming through a filter, and he is hearing and feeling very differently about these kinds of issues.

So my recommendation would be, and there's another wonderful book, "The Space Between Us," and that is based on how different people are viewing life. We just view it very differently.

The reality is, let's face it, most of us have married an opposite person to us. I mean, it was really attractive when you were dating because they were strong in your areas where you're weak. But the reality is sometimes you get into the marriage, and then you think, "Oh, what did I do here?"

The reality is what you did was good because God has ordained that you be together. You may think, "No, God didn't have anything to do with this." Yes, He did. Even before the foundation of the earth, He had you in mind, and He had the best fit for you.

You just got to know that sometimes the enemy says it needs to be my way. Well, your way may be a left hand, or your way may be a right hand. But the reality is you cannot do this if you've got two right hands or two left hands.

So quit trying to make that other person in your image, okay? We've got to accept each other the way we are.

That was a loaded response! I don't even think we need any more questions. Thank you! Have a great day! Enjoy the Super Bowl!

No, no! So I do have a question. I should have prefaced this whole segment by saying this is going to get a little PG-13. I've got a question that I'm going to throw out there just to kind of break the ice, make everybody in the room feel uncomfortable, and it'll be great. Then maybe you'll ask some honest questions.

So this is for anybody that wants to jump at the question: can you have a healthy marriage without regular sex?

The audience answered for you: no!

So maybe there's kind of two sides to this question. One side may be for medical reasons; the other side may be for non-medical reasons. Can you have a healthy marriage without regular sex? Mark, what do you think?

Let's go!

I think you have to define what's regular, first and foremost. But I think we have to be honest: life is not slowing down for anything. As we deal with external pressures, as we deal with life, as we deal with family, as we deal with jobs, as we deal with everything that we're involved in, some things are affected.

At the end of the day, you have to ask yourself: this person that I choose to be with, that's a time for us to be intimate together—not just physically, but to continue to grow and nurture the marriage.

You have to be intentional. It may not be like it was in year one and year two; it may have to be different. But that's how you grow together. You have to be in tune to each other's needs and to that time in which you two need to be together because there is some healing that happens when that happens, if you feel what I'm saying.

So I say that to say you have to be intentional, and you have to continually have that open communication in terms of how your needs have changed over the years. It's not going to be the same; it's going to change. Hear me: it's going to change.

So how tuned and how willing and how unselfish are you willing to be as it changes?

Come on!

So you notice the guys are the ones wanting to answer this question. So let's talk about sex here. I'll say this: there's a definition that defines what a sexless marriage looks like. I'm not sure of the numbers; I don't want to misquote. But there's a certain amount of time per year or something like that that if you're not having sex with your wife and your husband together, it's determined that it is a sexless marriage.

So the questions I would have—and it's when you throw healthy in there—healthy or happy marriage, healthy sex life. I always have to look at the why because that is where we always go: why are you not having sex on what you consider to be a regular basis or a regular time?

Wherever that may be: once a week, twice a week, every day, I don't know, whatever that is, you have to determine it. But the reason is always the why. Is it something to do with health, like we talked about? That's a whole other topic.

Is it something to do with your spouse irritating you, or they're just not giving you what you need throughout the week, throughout the day in your relationship? So you're feeling empty, and you're not getting what you need. So now here comes time to be intimate, and I have nothing for you, or you have nothing for me. You know, there's nothing there, so it's just a complete turnoff.

So you always have to examine the why: what's going on? How do we fix the other stuff so that we can have a regular sex life, or what we consider to be a regular sex life? Let's work on the other stuff.

My wife said, "Enjoyable sex life." Yes, enjoyable! I like that.

Can I add one more thing to that? I do think it is important for us to recognize that we do have different cadences when it comes to sex. I think that sometimes we get caught up in that, "Well, he wants it this way, and I want it this many times."

That's where we have to bring God into the situation because I do think that you can get caught up in, "Maybe I'm not attracted to them," or "I don't feel attracted to them because of that cadence and that pace."

I think it's important then to realize that having a healthy—so the question was, is a sexless marriage a happy marriage? My answer would be no. But I would think that it doesn't matter whether you have one time of wonderful sex a month or two months or every day because you could have bad sex seven days a week, right?

And have good sex one day a week or one day a month or one day a year and still have a wonderful time together. So I don't think you should measure it against other people or what the world says; it's what your relationship dictates.

That's what I want to say.

I'll just throw in there—this is a freebie for you—but if you have a headache every night, you should probably go see a doctor.

Oh, BR! I did want to say that because it thought about when you use the word medical. Whether you are at the early stage of your marriage or whether you are in the prime or the seasoned part of your marriage, be intentional about your health.

Go to the doctor, check on yourself, and don't just sit around like, "It's not working for me." Figure out what can work. There are some real serious medical conditions, and then the older you get, things change. So just be intentional about your health early on.

It's good.

So I think we're kind of focusing on the health of a marriage or a healthy marriage right now. A question came in that I think ties into this, but it was—oh, I just lost it. Somebody moved my stuff.

Oh, here it is. How do you build accountability in your marriage? Because I think that a healthy marriage requires a level of accountability. But how do you build that up in your marriage?

This is for anybody that wants to jump in.

Nobody? Okay, I'll go.

Accountability—one of the things that Proverbs tells us is that iron sharpens iron. So accountability would be to hang around other healthy marriages or taking the time to invest in your marriage or reading books or doing devotional time or communicating on a level that speaks to how you are holding each other accountable.

Then your connections—even if you're not hanging with couples—my friends, my sisters, are they holding me accountable? What standards am I keeping to keep my marriage healthy?

You know, communicating about that. If you have weaknesses in your marriage, you don't hang with the weak; you hang with the strong. You find areas that are going to keep you accountable to continuing a healthy relationship.

That was really good.

Can your spouse have the password to your cell phone, to your laptop, to all those things?

The question is, why would you not want them to have it?

I mean, yes, that would be the question.

Mind you, you just respond with a question with a question. I think you absolutely should. Everything in your relationship should be an open book. If you have things that you're hiding, there are probably some things you need to talk about.

Now, does that mean that I want Nisha to pick up my phone? Well, she does anyway. Check all my text messages. But she does it for other reasons; I don't mind.

But does that mean some people—sometimes I might want to be surprising you? I can't do that if you're checking everything. But yes, always be open.

But yes, she says she's my secretary, and she is. She keeps me responsive. So if you get a text and it might not sound just like me, it's Nisha who probably sent it back for me.

I love it!

All right, so next question I have for you. It kind of ties into that conversation a little bit, but is it okay to have friendships with people of the opposite sex? As a guy, can you have girlfriends? And as a girl, can you have guy friends?

No, no!

So we got a no?

We got a maybe?

No, I don't have a maybe because let me just say this: you have to be very careful because you don't understand the motives of people outside of yourself.

What may seem innocent, you could be guided out there to places where you don't necessarily find yourself comfortable.

Yeah, I can have friends of the opposite sex. Yeah, I can do that. But is it a detriment to the relationship that you're trying to build? And what's more important?

I've been there, and so what I thought I could do and live, it's just really difficult and hard to maintain.

At the end of the day, I had to really ask myself and be accountable to people that were around me: what's more important?

I heard there was a pastor that I was listening to this morning, and she said her vision for her marriage was here. So then you have to ask yourself: every misstep that you take, is it helping you get towards that vision?

Because if it's not, then you got to ask yourself, is it really worth it?

I know me, and so knowing me, I don't put myself in those positions to be slowly seduced by the dark side, so to speak.

Right?

So that's good.

M, you want to go ahead?

I will just say that both of us have been plagued by that. We call that emotional adultery when you allow those friendships to go beyond.

What I mean is if you don't understand—yeah, maybe you have work friends or you all talk—but if you are erasing text messages from Bobby Joe or Suzy Bell so that your spouse does not see it, that's adultery, and that's the problem.

I thought that because we were dealing with this issue, it wasn't going to be mine, and it ended up being mine too. Innocently, I thought.

But again, just like Mark said, I found myself way out there, and I couldn't turn around.

So my thing is we have something inside of us, and we have a great God that lives with us that tells us when your Spidey senses are going off. You know when that's too far, and you have to make those decisions and those conscious efforts to say, "You know what? My promise to God about what I was going to do in this relationship is more important than me hanging out with Bobby Sue or Billy Joe."

I don't know who they are, right?

Ugh, that part right there!

I'm going to help somebody out.

So that doesn't mean that you have to throw out every opposite-sex person's friend number and never speak to them again. It's great to have associates. You grew up with some of them; you went to school with them.

So we're not saying you can never speak to them again. What we're saying is when you're talking about friendship, your spouse should get the first meaning.

If something went wrong, she should be the first person I call. If something went right, she should be the first person I call. If something is, "I just have a question," whatever it is, she gets all of the first.

You should not have somebody of the opposite sex who you are calling up saying, "You know, this is really bothering me. I had this trouble at work. I'm really feeling some kind of way about something."

Because that begins an unhealthy relationship between the two of you.

I'm going to say this part: if your spouse says to you, "I'm not sure about that person," just like what Ryan was saying, "I'm not sure about that person," listen to them.

Especially a woman; they know women. Sometimes men, we like to D and we don't always see all the stuff. "Oh, she just, you know."

But women don't.

And fellas, we know a snake when we see a snake. Listen to your spouse.

Here's the question I have: who is more important? Who is more important: making my wife happy or listening, giving her what she needs, or me to keep some female friend who really is not going to add any value to my life?

Because in the end, she's the only one that matters.

So if she says, "You know, I don't really like you talking to them every day," then I'm like, "Okay, well, we just won't be those type of friends. We'll see you when I see you type of friends."

Go ahead.

You know, I'd like to kind of tie in a couple of things here. We're talking—we talked earlier about accountability.

Okay, it's really a lot easier to be accountable to somebody that you like, that you enjoy.

Okay, I train virtually, and I've had trainers that I thought, "They don't even understand what I'm about." But when you get a trainer that you really feel like they understand you, you say, "Hey, I'm hurting here," and they respond.

You know, they don't make you keep on.

So I guess what I'm trying to say is what can we do in our marriages to increase intimacy? Meaning we can talk about the things that are in our lives. We can be transparent with this person.

I just want to put a plug for what has helped Tim and I. Some of you are going to say, "Oh, that's just a spiritual answer. I don't want a spiritual answer."

Listen, I'm a practical person. I want it to work practically.

For us, you know, probably, I don't know, 10 years ago, these life groups that we were a part of or we were leading, all the books were telling us we needed to pray together and we needed to do a devotion.

Okay? And the thing about a devotion is it doesn't have to be long, but my recommendation would be do a couple's devotion.

I mean, I love Joyce Meyer, okay? I love some of these, you know, Joel Osteen and different ones. But you do that personally.

What you need to be doing together is something—a devotion that is actually feeding your relationship.

The wonderful thing about five minutes of a couple's devotion doesn't have to be long. You know, a little tiny paragraph. "The Love Dare" is a wonderful one. Tiny, but it's got a prayer afterwards, and it's got a question for you to talk about.

The wonderful thing is that will begin you talking about things that are pertinent to your marriage.

Some of you have been married 30 years. Listen, it helped us. By the time we did a couple's devotion, we've been married a long time, and I can't tell you what it's done for our relationship because we're now talking about things that other couples are having struggles with that we would have never brought to the table.

Never! Because we just didn't think about it.

Any comments?

So when you get your devotions in the morning and when you pray for each other, you're developing a connection that you can never have with another female friend, in my case.

I would say the same thing the other way around, too.

But when you pray for each other, you know, in the morning, it's not time to pray for the president or the county government or whatever's going on.

Okay? It's time to pray for each other.

When you've got someone that you've dreamed dreams with and you're building a family and a life with, praying with them and her praying with me gives me an encouragement that I will get nowhere else.

You know, when you go into the day every day feeling that, you know, at least I got one person on my side.

You know, it's not—that's not the case every day. I mean, as far as I don't feel like other people are on my side sometimes, okay?

But when you've got that one, I have no desire to have other female friends.

You know, and I'll just say the other female friends that I do have are all Mel's friends.

You know, so, you know, that's—and that's a good thing.

So the only time I really see them is when I'm with Melanie.

So awesome! I love it!

All right, I'm going to throw two questions in one because we actually created a question, and then somebody in the audience actually asked a very similar question.

So I'm going to read both of them to you. I'm going to throw this at Mark and Rhonda.

So this is how we phrased it: "His mama is crazy and always in our business. What can I do?"

The person that typed in a question, they were a lot more appropriate with it. They said, "My mother does not like my wife. What should I do?"

So kind of that—there's an issue here with parents. How do you navigate that?

All right, all right. He's pondering his question.

First of all, my mother and I had a wonderful relationship, so I'm not speaking from my experience. However, I will say this: I do know that families and family issues and being in crisis with your in-laws can be problematic, right?

I do understand that. But I also feel like if your spouse is having trouble with your parents or vice versa, it is okay—let me back it up.

If Mark is having trouble with my parents, it's my responsibility to make that right because I made a covenant promise to this man that he was first.

That Mama didn't come first, that Daddy didn't come first, that none of even my children maybe I had by somebody else—I know that's a whole other conversation—are first. He is.

So if there is some issue with my mother-in-law and him or my mother getting—I'm getting mixed up—I need to be the one that is the one in charge of making that change, right?

I have to set her or him straight, right? Because he's first.

It is important then for the spouse that is in crisis—I'll say that's in the middle—because then you feel like you're fighting, right? I got to please Mama, and I got to please my spouse. You're in the middle.

Well, firstly, you need to pray about how to be in the middle, right? You need to pray about that thing.

But also, you need to make amends, and I think it all comes down to open communication.

Right? Mom, this is my husband. He is not going anywhere. How can we work on this thing?

Husband, this is my mother. I love her dearly. How can we work on this together?

Sometimes you're going to step on their toes, and that's okay because your heart has to be right in regard to what your husband is or is not doing.

Take it away, because I couldn't fix it.

Yeah, that was very good.

It's odd because I would probably say I would have to have the difficult conversation with my mom.

My mom is very straightforward and to the point.

But I think what's important is the open communication piece. If Mark is having trouble with my parents, it's my responsibility to make that right.

If Mark is having trouble with my parents, I need to have that difficult conversation with my mom.

CU, my mom is very straightforward and to the point.

But I think what's important is the open communication piece.

There are just some things about life and relationships that we have to have the hard conversations, as hard as they may have to be with our parents.

Our parents always see us as the young, "My baby, that's my baby boy." But you're grown now, and so it's hard for them.

But you have to have the difficult conversation: "Mom, I'm moving. This is my wife now."

You have to set the situation straight.

But at the same time, you have to make sure that you are intentional about spending quality time with your mother and with your father because you're important to them.

However you set the boundaries up, you still have to maintain that relationship. But they have to know that, just as Ronda said, that's my first priority.

It's hard because I know families pull, and they don't care. If you're hurt, the Bible says, "Leave and cleave," which means your business stays in your household.

It doesn't go to Mama's house because Mama can't forgive as quick as you can forgive.

So you have to be intentional. You have to be intentional about handling grown folk business in your house as grown folks and then deal with Mama or Daddy however you need to.

But you have to separate the two.

Yeah, yeah. I'm not even supposed to be answering questions, but I just got to piggyback off of what you said just to make sure you don't miss that.

If you are taking the problems that you're having in your marriage to your parent, that is breeding ground for a very unhealthy relationship.

Because what happens is you go and complain to Mom, then you go back home, and he has flowers waiting for you.

And he's like, "Man, I messed up. I shouldn't have said what I said. I shouldn't have done that."

And all of a sudden, the two of you are like, "Oh, I love you again."

But Mom, she didn't get the flowers; she didn't get the kissy face and the "I'm so sorry."

So it does create really unhealthiness.

And so I know that for some people, their mother has been the person they've gone to their entire life with all their problems.

The moment you get married, that changes.

So sorry, I had to just—I loved what you said. That was awesome, man!

And I think it's also an opportunity for the other spouse to foster a great relationship of how can I interact with your child?

Yeah, show me some things. Give me some insight because that builds the relationship on that side, and then they'll see that your intentions are to provide a safe environment and a healthy marriage for their child.

Yeah, that's awesome!

All right, so those were the easy questions. You guys ready for the hard questions?

Because what we're going to do is we're going to kind of shift a little bit of focus with the last 15 minutes or so that we have to really address conflict when there's serious conflict.

So we're going to kick things off with a poll. So go ahead and throw that poll up on the screen.

We're going to do: what do you and your spouse fight about the most? You fight about the money, the sex, the parenting styles, or unmet expectations? What do y'all fight about the most?

And so while they're figuring that out, I guess we'll just go straight for it.

This is an open question to anybody on the panel: when is divorce or separation appropriate? How can someone find healing in that separation time, or are you just delaying the inevitable?

So kind of that conversation: divorce and temporary separation as two separate things. Is temporary separation ever a good thing, or is it just delaying the inevitable? What's your—

I know that's a mountain of a question. You have 30 seconds. Go!

All right, so I'll start out. So there's what's called an informal separation where the two of you may agree to separate.

And it's not to separate to necessarily go on that path for divorce or whatever you're going to do, but it is a time for you to reflect and work on yourself.

That has to be part of the agreement: we're going to separate here because what we have here is very toxic and unhealthy mentally.

So we need a break from each other so that I can go over here, I can get some help, some counseling. You can get some help, some counseling.

Once we are better—I'm not going to say complete, but once we are better—then you are able to work on the marriage and deal with some issues that the two of you may have.

We actually don't necessarily say, "Hey, you guys need a separation." But sometimes we can't start marriage counseling because the two of you need some individual work, some individual counseling.

So let's work on you two. Let's work on your issues, and then we can come together and kind of try to work on that marriage thing.

But it has to be an agreement between the two of you.

Good.

Anybody else?

So I think that we need to be clear that divorce does happen. I'm sure, unfortunately, we all have either experienced it. I'm a child product of a divorce, and many people have.

So I think we have to understand God's love. God doesn't hate divorce people; He hates divorce because of what it does to families and what it does to generations.

I mean, honestly, I am scarred by my parents' separation, right? I thought it was my fault.

How does a kid think it's the parents' fault? But you do.

So I think we need to be clear about that: God hates divorce, but unfortunately, it does happen.

There is respite for the believer who ends up having to be divorced for whatever reason.

But also, before you get there, I think it's important to note that many times people separate with, "I'm just going to get divorced," and this is the pathway.

Really, your separation should be you running back to one another, right? I want to get well so I can run back healthy to my spouse.

So I think we look at separation the wrong way often. We need to look at it as a time of, "I'm getting better so that we can be better."

Now I'm getting better so I can go—

That was beautiful! Love that right there!

This question from the audience: how do we move forward from hurt and disappointment?

How do you move forward after you've been hurt, you've been disappointed?

Actually, before we go to that, what were our results?

57% unmet expectations. 25% money. Only 1.94% of you were honest to say it's the sex.

All right, that's very interesting results!

All right, so yeah, how do we move forward from hurt and disappointment?

Well, I would say that one of the things you have to do along with unmet expectations is the person who's been hurt will probably expect to heal after hearing someone take ownership of being hurt.

The person who was the offender needs to say, "Wes, I acknowledge I did this wrong."

Not, "I didn't mean to," and "I realized I hurt you."

"I am doing everything in my power to not do it again."

Okay? Because sometimes you can't heal from the hurt if the offender keeps repetitive behavior.

And so that's the first part. Yes, God can heal the wounds, yes. But if you're in a marriage, you need that spouse to take ownership and then turn away from the thing that they're doing to continue to hurt you.

Because a lot of times we get stuck in a place of, "Well, if she would have done this or he would have done that, then they wouldn't have got hurt," and this, that, and the other.

If they would have done this, it doesn't matter about that.

Take ownership and say, "I was wrong."

The reality is, though, that there are five languages of apology, and all of us do not speak the same language.

Okay? Because for years, I was saying to Tim, "I'm sorry. I'm really sorry."

That is one language of apology.

But as Nisha was sharing, there is another one that says, "I was wrong. I won't do this again. This is what I'm going to try to do to make it better."

Okay?

So, you know, I would really encourage you that in marriage, I think a wonderful resource for all of us—for me and Tim too—is being in a life group, reading some of these wonderful books that are out there and talking about it.

One of the books that we did years ago was "The Language of Apologies," and I was shocked.

I thought we were—I thought "I'm sorry" meant the same thing as "I'm wrong. What can I do about it to make it right?"

The reality is you may be speaking a language of apology that your spouse or those loved ones around you do not even hear it.

They don't hear it because they don't speak that language.

So, you know, life group is a wonderful place to be able to grow. It's a good place for you to be able to hear other couples who are going through the same things and learn.

And then you're doing a book together.

I always said, you know, Tim and I are really stronger when we are in a life group.

So when we're off for the summer, when we don't have a life group—listen, we're vacationing; we don't need to be doing a life group.

But I say that I love the times we're in a life group because we are stronger when we're in a life group.

You know, people think that because you're leading a life group, "No, listen, we do it for selfish reasons. We want to keep growing."

You know, we want to keep loving.

The reality is when I hear somebody tell me, "You know, hey, this has worked for me," I think, "Oh, I never would have thought of that. Never in a million years!"

Jason, I don't know what you paid for that advertisement, but it was worth every penny!

I would just add: you have to realize that in order for marriages to grow, you got to go through something.

And going through something means it's going to hurt. You're going to be sad. There's going to be disappointment.

God didn't tell us that, "Okay, now that you're here, everything is going to be good."

There's going to be adversity.

So it's attacking those situations and those issues that come up in your marriage that allows you to grow, learn from it.

And yeah, you may not be married, but life is still dealing you adversity.

So have an open mind and an open heart to grow from it, to learn from it, and to be a better person.

That's what we're all in this thing trying to be: grown into God's son, into His image.

And so this is the plight that we go to get there.

We're married, and so we go through ups and downs. We go through trials and tribulations.

But the finished product is to be like Jesus, and so we get there by going through this.

Learn from it. Grow from it. Surround yourself with people who love on you, and just love them back.

And then if you learn from it, then you may not have to deal with that particular situation next time.

But there will be another series of adversity. That's what life is.

I wish it could be easier, but it's not.

Yeah, that's good!

I love it!

Okay, we got time for one maybe two more questions if we squeeze it in.

What do you do when you're the only one who wants to work on the marriage?

This has gotten a lot of the upvotes, and so I got a feeling there's a lot of people out there that have been in this place where it seems like they're the only one working on it.

So the reality is if marriage is a dance of two people, if I change the dance steps, it affects the dance.

So my encouragement for you would be you keep growing, you keep learning, you keep investing.

I really think that it is possible. The Bible says, "Why, you know, be submissive to your husbands so that if they do not believe the word, they will be won over."

They're not going to be won over by all these words, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

It says they'll be won over by the purity and the reverence of your life.

When they see that you are living the life, so I mean, I just want to encourage you: one can change the dance.

And what happens eventually, as I change the dance, then sometimes time—I mean, it's going to make a change in the other partner.

It's not possible to make that drastic of a change and it not affect.

And so then you start growing. You use all these wonderful strategies as you see the changes coming.

But I definitely believe that one can make a difference.

I mean, Jesus was one, and what did He do?

So don't let the enemy say, "No, it'll never work." You know, that's hopelessness, and God gives us hope, and He wants us to trust Him for miracles.

He's a miracle worker, a way maker.

And I just want to add to that because Mel reminded me of, you know, with all of us have been 50 years and 27, 28, 30, whatever, 35—how long you all been? 25?

I was trying to give you all extra!

We've heard testimonies, and the scripture says we overcome through the blood of the Lamb and the word of the testimony.

Find a testimony!

I had to listen to testimonies, and we have seen countless testimonies.

So don't just throw in the towel, but be intentional about finding the testimonies that will help you.

If you want your marriage to be strengthened, and like Mel said, quiet yourself, but look for building yourself up in the Most Holy Faith and not so much as what you're looking at as being torn down.

The enemy always likes to put a magnifying glass on what's wrong.

How about put the magnifying glass on what's going right and celebrate what is good in your marriage until God begins to bring deliverance in the other areas?

Man, we have so many great questions!

We got time for one more, and I have to ask this question because I got a feeling that this is a plant from Kiana.

And if I don't ask the question, she's going to yell at me later.

But what is premarital counseling, and do you recommend it before or after engagement or during dating?

Was that yours?

I—it wasn't!

Okay, well, we have a wonderful ministry here called Intwine.

It is for seriously dating couples as well as people who are engaged.

But I would say that it's important for you to get counseling all the time, okay? Like in good season and bad season, all the time.

Mark and I probably had five premarital counseling sessions at different churches.

We were church hopping to go, and we still had issues.

So I'm not saying it works to fix everything, but at least we were aware.

So I lost the question: is it important?

What was the question?

Yeah, what is premarital counseling?

Yes, premarital counseling here at Intwine, we talk about those things that we are talking about today.

So we're talking about how to put your finances together. We talk about how to communicate. We talk about sex and intimacy.

We talk about the baggage that our parents and our other stuff gives us and how it affects the marriage.

So yes, premarital counseling is important.

It's anywhere to me—good premarital counsel is anywhere from six to eight sessions, depending on where you are.

And then do I recommend it? I recommend it before, after, between, on top of, bottom of—every time you can get some counseling, I think you should get it.

Why is counseling important?

Well, and for those people that—Jason, you're going to love this—for those people that your spouse or maybe you say, "I'm never going to go to a counselor. It's a bunch of psycho mumbo jumbo."

Well, then you get in a marriage group, and they're planting information that if you're open, it will change the way you think.

It'll change the way you feel. It will give you hope.

So I want you to know I love counseling personally, okay? I do.

I am way—and the thing about it is Tim and I did do premarital counseling.

But I think Intwine is absolutely wonderful because what you do in Intwine—and nobody's really said this—you take an independent assessment online of 225 questions.

And in that, you find out things about the other person you did not even know.

And that gives you strategies as to how to help those things.

So yes, premarital counseling is important.

I wish every church could have an Intwine program because it is that wonderful.

So, you know, just know if you're engaged, if you're just dating seriously—even if you're just dating, you can come to Intwine, and you can really grow from Intwine.

Yeah, we do make it a requirement at CLC. If you're going to get married at CLC, if a CLC pastor is going to do your wedding, it is required that you go through premarital counseling.

And the reason for that is premarital counseling solves problems that will arise in your marriage before you have to get there.

And so it's kind of like a safety net for us. It's like, "Okay, they've been through counseling. All right, we'll marry them."

So it is highly, highly, highly—not even encouraged; it's required.

It's highly required, and it starts on Saturday, this Saturday the 17th.

Next Saturday? This Saturday? The 17th is this Saturday?

Apparently, I don't know my days.

So I'm just—it's Super Bowl; that's all I know today.

But guys, thank you so much for your time today. This was beautiful. It was wonderful.

I do wish we could just keep going, but we've got a business meeting that we need to do and all that.

But I think between the two services, we have around 60 more questions to try and answer during our podcast this week.

We'll see if some of those are duplicates; that'll probably shorten down a little bit.

But if your question wasn't answered today, pay attention to the podcast this week.

And then beyond that, if you're really needing some help—some of those questions I was reading, and my heart was grieved just reading the question.

And so you can email counseling@clc.tv. If you're a member of the church, our counseling department would love to meet with you and to really kind of give you more than just a curt answer from a stage, but really walk through this with you.

Because at CLC, we're very serious about helping people have healthy, strong marriages, and so we want to do everything that we can to assist you in that.

Are you grateful for this team?

Awesome! Thank you, guys!

I'm going to invite you to stand to your feet. We're going to pray the blessing in just a moment.

But a couple of quick announcements for you. I was told to make this announcement in the first service, and Donna yelled at me because I forgot to.

But the merch is actually going away after today, so all of the First Love merch—today is the last day to pick that up.

And then we'll do a new set of merch in the springtime, but for now, it's your last chance for that.

I'm also going to invite you to come back Wednesday night if you're a lady because it's CLC Women on Wednesday.

Sorry, guys, you're not wanted in that meeting apparently.

You're loved; I love you. I just—it's some me time with you and the kids at Culver's right down the street, so it'll be great.

But be here Wednesday night if you're a lady for CLC Women. It's going to be a great time right out in the lobby.

My wife is going to be teaching, so I'm extra excited about that.

But it's going to be a great night for the ladies.

The business meeting is going to start as soon as this room kind of clears out, so maybe 10-15 minutes.

We'll do our business meeting right here in the auditorium.

And then I want to invite our altar ministry team to come on down to the front.

I think this is the most fitting way to close this.

I do know that when we start answering some of these questions, it was poking some wounds in some people.

And I think that the reality is that relational problems hurt deep.

And we want you to be able to find healing.

I really do believe that the first step to that healing is prayer.

And so this ministry team is down here at the front. You can come to them for prayer for anything at all, but specifically if you are facing some marital challenges or relational challenges, this team is here to partner with you in prayer.

And then your next step from there would be to contact the counseling department because we want to pray about it, but then we want to equip you and give you the right tools and resources to help you walk out a healthy and vibrant marriage.

Sound good?

All right, if you're ready to receive the blessing:

Now may the Lord bless you and keep you. May He make His face shine upon you and be gracious unto you.

May He lift up His countenance upon you and give you peace.

In Jesus' name, amen, amen, amen.

God bless! [Applause]

"Marriage is not just about being roommates or partners in parenting. It's about nurturing a deep, intimate connection that goes beyond the physical. It's about being intentional in understanding and meeting each other's needs, even as they change over time." [56:26 ](Download | Download)

"Healthy space in marriage doesn't mean you're escaping each other. It's about giving each other room to breathe and grow individually, which ultimately strengthens the bond you share." [47:30 ](Download | Download)

"In marriage, the 'why' behind our actions is crucial. If you're seeking space, ask yourself why. Is it for personal growth or avoidance? The answer can determine the health of your relationship." [46:25 ](Download | Download)

"Accountability in marriage isn't just about keeping each other in check. It's about surrounding yourselves with strong, healthy relationships that inspire and challenge you to grow together." [01:00:32 ](Download | Download)

"Prayer and devotion in marriage are about more than spiritual discipline. They're about creating a safe, intimate space where you can support and uplift each other in the most personal ways." [01:10:24 ](Download | Download)

"Premarital counseling isn't just a box to check off. It's about laying a strong foundation, understanding each other deeply, and equipping yourselves with tools for a lifetime of love." [01:31:02 ](Download | Download)

"Marriage is a journey of continuous growth. Embrace the changes and challenges as opportunities to become more like Christ, reflecting His love and grace in your relationship." [01:25:12 ](Download | Download)

"Open communication in marriage means more than just talking. It's about understanding how your spouse hears and perceives, and adjusting your approach to ensure you're truly connecting." [51:31 ](Download | Download)

"Marriage is a covenant where two become one, but that doesn't mean losing individuality. It's about bringing your unique strengths to the table and accepting each other as you are." [53:28 ](Download | Download)

"Intimacy in marriage isn't just about frequency. It's about the quality of connection and being intentional about maintaining a fulfilling physical relationship as life evolves." [59:01 ](Download | Download)