Divine Principles for a Thriving Marriage

### Bible Reading
1. **Ephesians 5:21-33** - "Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything. Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. After all, no one ever hated their own body, but they feed and care for their body, just as Christ does the church—for we are members of his body. 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.' This is a profound mystery—but I am talking about Christ and the church. However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband."

2. **1 Peter 3:7** - "Husbands, in the same way be considerate as you live with your wives, and treat them with respect as the weaker partner and as heirs with you of the gracious gift of life, so that nothing will hinder your prayers."

3. **Colossians 3:18-19** - "Wives, submit yourselves to your husbands, as is fitting in the Lord. Husbands, love your wives and do not be harsh with them."

### Observation Questions
1. According to Ephesians 5:21-33, what are the roles of husbands and wives in a marriage?
2. How does 1 Peter 3:7 instruct husbands to treat their wives, and what is the reason given for this instruction?
3. In Colossians 3:18-19, what specific commands are given to wives and husbands?
4. What examples of mutual submission and service were discussed in the sermon? ([01:25:44])

### Interpretation Questions
1. How does the concept of mutual submission in Ephesians 5:21-33 reflect the relationship between Christ and the church? ([01:25:44])
2. What might be the practical implications of 1 Peter 3:7 for a husband in his daily interactions with his wife?
3. How can the principles in Colossians 3:18-19 be applied to modern marriages, especially in the context of mutual respect and love?
4. How does the idea of serving without expecting anything in return, as discussed in the sermon, align with the biblical concept of love and submission? ([01:40:07])

### Application Questions
1. Reflect on your own marriage or relationships. How can you practice mutual submission and service in a way that honors God? ([01:25:44])
2. Think of a recent disagreement you had with your spouse or a close friend. How could you have approached the situation differently to seek reconciliation and understanding rather than proving who was right? ([01:28:14])
3. In what ways can you improve your communication with your spouse or loved ones to foster deeper intimacy and understanding? ([01:28:14])
4. How can you model a life of faith and service to your children, ensuring they grow up with strong, God-centered values? ([01:37:07])
5. Evaluate your financial stewardship within your marriage. Are there areas where you can better manage your resources together to honor God and each other? ([01:34:11])
6. Identify one specific way you can serve your spouse this week without expecting anything in return. How do you think this act of service will impact your relationship? ([01:40:07])
7. How can you and your spouse make time to seek God together, ensuring that your marriage remains deeply rooted in faith? ([01:39:02])

Day 1: Love Through Selfless Service
True love in marriage is exemplified through selfless acts of service. Serving one's spouse is a profound demonstration of love that mirrors the self-sacrificial nature of Christ's love for humanity. When one serves their partner without expecting anything in return, they are not only performing a duty but are actively choosing to pour out love in a way that uplifts and honors the other person. This approach to marriage transforms the mundane into the holy, as each act of service becomes an offering of love. It is in these moments that the bond between spouses is strengthened, fostering a tender and resilient relationship that echoes the gospel message. By choosing to serve, individuals can create a marriage that is both strong and tender, a true reflection of divine love [01:40:07].

Ephesians 5:25-27 (ESV): "Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her, that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, so that he might present the church to himself in splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such thing, that she might be holy and without blemish."

Reflection: How can you demonstrate selfless love to your spouse today in a way that goes beyond your usual routine?

Day 2: Heartfelt Communication in Marriage
Communication in marriage transcends the mere exchange of information; it is the sharing of one's heart and soul. When spouses communicate with honesty and vulnerability, they lay the groundwork for deeper intimacy and understanding. This sacred exchange is essential for navigating the complexities of life together. It is not about winning arguments but about fostering a connection that is rooted in mutual respect and love. By prioritizing understanding and empathy, couples can strengthen their bond and ensure that their marriage remains a safe haven for both individuals to grow and flourish [01:28:14].

James 1:19 (ESV): "Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God."

Reflection: What is one way you can improve your listening skills to foster deeper communication with your spouse?

Day 3: Balancing Discipline and Grace in Parenting
Parenting within the context of marriage is a delicate balance of discipline and grace. It requires setting clear expectations while also extending the same grace that is received from the Heavenly Father. This balance creates an environment where children can develop character and faith, secure in the knowledge that they are loved unconditionally. Parents must model a life of faith and service, teaching their children not just through words but through their actions. By doing so, they lay a foundation for their children to grow into healthy, God-fearing individuals [01:37:07].

Colossians 3:21 (ESV): "Fathers, do not provoke your children, lest they become discouraged."

Reflection: In what ways can you model a balance of discipline and grace in your interactions with your children today?

Day 4: Wise Financial Stewardship in Marriage
Financial stewardship within marriage is a reflection of a couple's commitment to serve one another and to steward God's provision wisely. It involves recognizing each other's strengths and weaknesses and making financial decisions in agreement, with the best interest of the family in mind. This approach to finances builds a foundation of trust and security that extends beyond material wealth. When couples manage their resources together, they honor God and each other, ensuring that their marriage is not only financially sound but also spiritually aligned [01:34:11].

Proverbs 31:10-11 (ESV): "An excellent wife who can find? She is far more precious than jewels. The heart of her husband trusts in her, and he will have no lack of gain."

Reflection: How can you and your spouse improve your financial stewardship to better reflect your service and commitment to each other?

Day 5: Mutual Submission Fosters Marital Harmony
Mutual submission in marriage is a divine mandate that fosters harmony and respect between spouses. When both partners submit to one another out of reverence for Christ, they create a dynamic of equality and love that mirrors the relationship between Christ and the church. This mutual submission is not about power or control but about loving and lifting each other up in all aspects of life. By embracing this principle, couples can build a marriage that is characterized by mutual respect, understanding, and a deep, abiding love [01:25:44].

Ephesians 5:21 (ESV): "Submitting to one another out of reverence for Christ."

Reflection: What is one area in your marriage where you can practice mutual submission to strengthen your partnership?

[Applause]

You! [Applause] Yay! I'm so excited! How you guys doing today? How you guys doing? Happy Sunday!

So I am so excited to be joining you guys today. We're doing a very special Sunday. Again, my name is Taisha Beasley, and I will be your host for today. But I'm excited because we're starting a new sermon series called "Love on the Rocks." Can we, yes, can we give it up for "Love on the Rocks"?

So we are going to be discussing love, relationships, singleness, all the good stuff. It's going to get juicy! I'm going to get all the tea today, so be ready. But I'm so excited! This is going to be an amazing sermon series. We have every Sunday, and it'll be a different panel discussion on love, on marriage, on relationships. So I am ready to dive in!

But before we go deeper, this is not just a conversation that we're going to be having. I want you guys to join in. We're going to have a way for you to participate today. So there will be a code on the screen, and you can ask any questions you have about this conversation about marriage, and you'll participate in some polls as well.

So, everybody ready to get started? Yes? Alright!

So if you know me, I like icebreakers, okay? So I do have an icebreaker question. Okay, so get your signs out. We're going to do some rapid-fire questions. Now, I want all the truth! Don't fluff it up for us today; we want all the tea, okay? Be honest!

Alright, okay, the first question: Who is the better singer?

Okay, so Pastor, can you sing us a little? I feel like neither of us should have raised a paddle, but I can sing. Katy said that I can be on the worship team. Can you sing us a little piece now?

Baby, shh!

Okay, okay, no, not that one. Okay, maybe next time, maybe next time.

Alright, next question: Who is the most likely to burn down the house while cooking?

Uh, what's your up, Pastor? Why is there a story to this?

There's no story; I just... there's one more than one pot, it's over.

Okay, she hasn't burned down the house, but there's been smoke.

Okay, alright, okay, we're going to move on. I feel a move-on spirit there.

Who said "I love you" first?

Oh, oh, that's... we're going to get into that. I want to know more about that.

Okay, who made the first move in the relationship?

Okay, alright, that's good.

Who is the better driver?

I feel like there's a story there too.

Oh yeah, okay, so I actually taught my wife how to drive. She didn't have a license before we got married, and we were married for like 10 years before I taught you how to drive.

And if I'm driving, like, that's all I'm doing. Like, don't talk to me, don't ask me for anything. Like, I can't... like, I even have a hard time driving and opening the garage. It's like the car is leaving while I'm trying to push the button. It's just too much!

No, too much!

Okay, maybe you shouldn't drive as much, Pastor. Get her a black car, how about that?

Right, get her a black car, let her be driven around. Let's do that! Add that to the budget.

My car is white right now.

No, I mean you get a dri... oh, that makes more sense.

Yes!

So you guys feel warmed up? You feel like you're ready to get in?

So we're going to start the conversation, and even though it's fun in nature, we want you guys to take notes.

And for my singles ready to mingle, don't tune us out! I think that there's going to be some amazing biblical principles that we can gather from this conversation.

So let's dive in!

Okay, first question: Give us a quick origin story of how you guys met and got married.

Go ahead, ladies first!

Or if you want, I submit to you.

So we met in Mexico. I am originally from Mexico, and there was like a school program. It was like an internship that started in Colorado Springs, and we opened one in Mexico as a sister program. I was a part of the program in Mexico; Brent was a part of the program in Colorado.

And he did two years in Colorado Springs and then did his last year in Mexico, and that's where we met.

Yeah, so as told, Brent doesn't speak any Spanish, so you're going to have to translate for him. Stick by them, be right there for every class, every meeting, everything.

And the person that told her that never told her to stop, and so it worked out for me.

So Brent was kind of like your boss?

100%! Yep, she was a year above me in the program, and so she was on staff, and I was doing a third year, so she was absolutely the boss.

Yeah, he was a student; I was working for the program.

So when you were... were you checking for him right away, or did this happen over time?

No, no, like it snuck up on me. It was funny because my dad was the very first one that actually realized that Brent had a thing for me. Like, he kept saying, "This boy Brent, he likes you."

And I kept just saying, "Dad, it's Brent!" He was like, "Well, just say whatever you want, but he likes you."

And I was like, "He doesn't like me, Dad! He's Brent, and he's supposed to be with me all the time."

And yeah, my dad kind of figured it out, and I honestly cannot even put my finger on when I started liking him. It just happened.

I don't know, it snuck up on you, right? Like a ninja!

Okay, ninja!

So when did you start feeling Pastor Brent?

So I actually noticed her way before she noticed me. So in the internship, we would do these mission trips to Mexico. Soul was the main translator, so she was always in front of people. I was always seeing her, but I was just one of a hundred white guys from Colorado, so I did not stand out at all.

And that went on for two years, and then finally in the third year, she had no choice but to notice me because I was there.

And yeah, so I think it was pretty early on in the program. In my third year, I emailed my dad and I said, "I've either discovered the reason why God sent me to Mexico, or I'm facing the biggest distraction of my life."

And I'm really still not sure which one it is, but I married her!

So, I mean, you did good! You did well; it worked out!

Yes, it worked out!

And so the next question I have is when did you know that you would pursue her for marriage? Like, did you date? Was there a pursuit there?

Yeah, so we started dating. Actually, I'm a little bit old school. I actually asked her parents for permission to date her.

To date?

Yes, to date! Not just for marriage, but to date!

That gave him all of the points with my dad. He was like, "Yes, I like this guy!"

So that's deep, to date!

Yep!

And so then we dated for probably about six months, and then the program was ending, and I was going to be moving back to Chicago.

And it was one of those where it was like, "If this is a for real thing, I need to put a ring on it before I leave."

And so, yeah, I proposed right at the end of that school year, and she said yes.

And then we spent about a year trying to get her into the country, and then we got married.

Okay, so Pastor, did you know that you would end up marrying a pastor? Like, at the time, did you know that he was going into a pastoral role? Like, is that something I give you insight on? Like, how did you feel about that?

So yes, I... I should not say a pastor per se. I knew that I was going to marry somebody in ministry. I started being in full-time ministry since I was 17 years old, so way before I even met Brent.

So I was 100% into everything that God wanted for me. I didn't want to do anything else.

When I asked my parents if I could enter this program, that this internship was going to replace college, my parents really wanted us all to have a career.

So when I told them I want to actually go into this internship and just be in full-time ministry right after high school, I was expecting my parents to be like, "You're crazy! Absolutely not!"

And I mean, they are pastors, and they were like, "Okay, I guess we know that God calls people, so sure, of course you can do that."

So I think that from that moment on, and how deep I felt like this was what God had called me to do, I always knew that I was going to be in ministry.

I didn't know where. I never expected to move from Mexico. It was never a desire of mine; it was never something that I looked for.

You know, I was happy in Mexico, but I thought that I was going to marry somebody in ministry. I didn't know what capacity, but yeah.

I mean, I want to dive a little bit deeper into that question. What if the person God sent to you was not in ministry? Do you feel like you would have still... like what if Brent wasn't called to pastoral ship or ministry?

I mean, he has a lot of history in his background; he worked everywhere, I mean, a clothing store. So like what if God said, "This is where I want him to stay"? Like, would you have second-guessed if the union was supposed to happen?

I think so. I think that would have been a deal breaker because I knew...

She said a deal breaker!

Like, I really knew that God had called me for ministry. Like, I knew it.

You know, when you go on missions and you realize, "I don't want to do anything else with my life but this," I think that it would have been really difficult to be with somebody that doesn't feel the same way.

Can I jump in there? So I want to make sure that people are not just hearing our story, but they're taking something that they can apply in their relationship.

And Paul tells the Corinthians, "Don't be unequally yoked with non-believers."

And a lot of times we just apply that literally, just believer-unbeliever. But what I found in ministry over the last 17, 18 years is that there's a lot of believers that are unequally yoked.

And it's... there's one that is just passionate about the things of God, and there's one that's like, "I'll go to church every month."

And so like there's a danger even when two people that believe in Jesus are not on the same page, not on the same level. They're not seeing eye to eye in what that really means.

Because for some people, I think Jesus is everything, and for other people, Jesus is just something.

And if you put an everything and a something together, there's going to be some danger there.

Oh, that's so good! Okay, that answers the question a lot for me. Okay, you cleared that up.

So the next question I have for you is, is there... is there any... well, before we go there, because it's going to get into the romance part, share one thing that you love about each other and then one thing that annoys you, and then share how you navigate those irritations.

That was loaded! Start with the first one. What do you love about each other?

What do you love about me?

I love everything! There's so much to love there! There really is!

I love that Soul just makes everything more fun. There's just something about her personality; there's just something about her as a person that, you know, we could be washing the dishes, and it's more fun because she's a part of it.

You know, you could be doing just the most mundane thing, and it's a joy.

Yeah, and I think that for me with Brent, he is very selfless. You know, I think that not everybody knows him that much, but he really is the guy that will put everybody first.

And it is, for me, even inspirational because there are times that I'm like, "Dude, but you're tired! Like, why are you going to still go and do all of this other stuff for people or even for us?"

Like, there are times that he's like, "But if you need me to go, I can go." And I'm like, "No, dude! You're tired! Just... it's fine! You have a long day!"

And he still chooses to serve and to do things for others, and I really love that.

Oh, that's sweet! That was so sweet!

So what do you not like about each other?

You go first!

This is a very difficult question to answer.

Um, keep it real! We're not doing none of that!

No, no, I mean, I mean for my safety!

I don't mean...

No, so there have been some challenges in our relationship from time to time over the years where Soul turns everything into a joke.

And so there have been times when it's like, "Okay, I need you to just be serious for a moment. We're trying to have a conversation," and she's just still the class clown, I guess is the appropriate way to say that.

Accurate!

A little bit, yeah.

Okay, so that wasn't that bad. I mean, you good!

So, Pastor, so tell us...

I can't! Like, I can be serious! It's so hard! It is so, so hard!

Like, I really struggle! Like, if you don't want to get in trouble at a serious event, don't sit by me!

This... it will... weddings, funerals, it doesn't matter! Like, it's bad!

Um, I think that for me, the thing that annoys me the most, and it is more of a recent thing because Steve Jobs did a really good job with a cell phone, and my husband really likes it.

And there are so many times that I'm trying to have a conversation or we are trying to do something, and the phone's always out.

And oh man, how the amount of times that I have said, "I'm going to grab the phone and put it in a glass of water," has been a lot!

I'm going to pray for you because I could just see that picture of you snatching the phone and dropping it in the water!

Listen, the Mexican in me wants to come out and be like, "You know, like just... it's coming! You know, just your cell phone is going in the trash!"

That's the translation for everyone!

I did learn Spanish eventually!

So what you should do when she gets mad is make a joke, and then it'll balance out the frustration!

Man, I've tried, but sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes she's like, "Wrong moment!" and I'm like, "Exactly!"

Okay, so how do you guys navigate those irritations? Because they do happen. Speaking as a married woman, they do happen. But how do you navigate that?

Yeah, so I think that... and this is kind of a pretty important lesson for people, is that I need to own my stuff.

So if the cell phone is becoming a problem for her, what should Soul do about it?

Absolutely nothing!

Um, because at that point, it's nagging. It's just, you know, you're just kind of beating a dead horse.

I need to take responsibility; I need to take ownership that, "Hey, this thing is causing a problem for the person I love."

And so if this thing is causing a problem for the person I love, I'm going to do something about it so that I don't damage the relationship.

So I think the ownership is on me to fix my thing, not for her to try and fix me.

Oh, that's good!

Yeah, and I think that something that I've learned is that you have to extend grace, especially when you see that your spouse is trying.

You know, because if I know that he really is trying, but then we're at the table and he has his phone, I cannot just explode because I know he's trying.

You know, like one step at a time, one day at a time, stuff like that.

Like, I think that it is just being gracious and just open and honest.

You know, when something... when you don't feel right about something, when something is really bringing that animosity or whatever word you will use for that, just being able to speak about it openly and honestly and say, "Hey, you know, I feel like there's a lot of times that you are doing this more than I wish you would."

I think that those things are important for you to be able to feel free to express that, but also to be able to receive that from somebody else.

Yes, I think that's key, how you stated feeling free to express that.

In marriage, communication is important. I even say in friendships and other types of relationships, communication is important, and owning, you know, your part in that. So that's good!

So, okay, let's dive into the romance. Any tips on how to keep your romance alive?

Is there any kids in here? Just... I'll keep it simple.

Um, you know, we could probably say a lot, but never forget that you were dating before you got married.

Um, and I think sometimes we forget that. Like, there were things that I did in order to convince her that marrying me is a good idea.

And that takes a lot of convincing!

And so there's a lot of little things that we do in dating that seems to, for a lot of people, just kind of fall off once the marriage is done.

And so it's the little love notes, it's the long glances, it's all those little things that just make the other person know this person still loves me.

And it's not just an obligation because we're married, but it's this person is just crazy about me.

And so there's a lot that we do during dating that just kind of communicates, "I love you."

And I think we need to make sure that we continue doing those things.

And I think that for me is serving. Like, I know that the more I serve my husband, the more that I am trying to make sure that his needs are met in every area.

You know, making sure that the things that he needs are clean and are ready to go, that if he has a meeting, that he feels like he's supported, that he's prepared.

Um, stuff like that. I think that just being able to serve him in every area makes him feel more connected to me because we can talk about stuff and because we are working together, even for things that don't benefit me at all.

You know, like even if it's just something for him, period.

I think that just being able to be a servant for him, which is the example that Jesus gave us.

You know, we are to serve one another, and I think that when we truly serve one another, not because of what you gain, but what you are giving, that makes the love stay fresh because you are always looking for the person's benefit.

And when it comes to that romance, romance is still the same thing. Serving is sexy, and it works both ways.

So guys, wash the dishes, and you never know!

Serving is sexy! Tweet that! Tweet that!

Exit, that's sexy!

Okay, no, it's not Twitter anymore; it's X!

No, see, see, I make jokes out of everything!

I'm starting... I'm like, "What?" You lost me!

Okay, it's okay!

I call out... you... the problem is when we have to interpret the joke, like it was like, "Okay, X! It's not Twitter anymore!" I got it!

So we have some questions that came in, and so I want to take a moment to ask some of those.

So these are not my questions, so you can't judge me!

So we're going to take a little break to ask those questions.

The first question was for you. So, the Bible says that your husband should love his wife as Christ loves the church.

So, Pastor, how does Brent demonstrate this?

That was a good question!

Well, that's a good question! And I think that I kind of touched on it a little bit before. He is very selfless.

Like, he really goes above and beyond to make sure that we are well taken care of, to make sure that we have everything that we need.

Um, not just money, but that we have time, that we have all of the resources, that we have the sense of security.

Um, so he is always watching out for us.

And at the same time, for me, something that is the most important thing is that he puts the faith of our family first and foremost.

So he is always looking at how we can teach our children about Jesus and how can we stay connected to the Bible.

And just the moments that we have together at the table, and he's explaining the kids different Bible verses and stuff makes me know that he's loving us enough to be able to help us grow in every area and caring for us in every area.

That was good!

And it kind of flows into the next question: What advice would you give a married couple who are not equally yoked in a marriage?

Pray! You know, I think that nagging somebody to be you is never going to be effective, but you can demonstrate with your life what being a true disciple of Jesus really looks like.

And, you know, and not just to say, "Well, I actually believe in Jesus, not like you do," you know?

And like, "I actually go to church," stuff like that doesn't help.

You know, when you exhibit the fruit of the Spirit and tell people that you're exhibiting the fruit of the Spirit, it might not be the fruit of the Spirit, you know?

But when it is truly coming out of you because of your relationship with Jesus, your spouse will notice that there's a difference in the way that you behave, that there's a difference in the way that you act, that there is a different passion that you have for the things of God.

And if you are praying for your spouse and actually doing your work for your own person, I think that God will honor that, and I think that God will start putting that fire in that other person to say, "Well, I don't want to be lagging behind."

So I think that you just need to do your job as connected to Jesus as you can and be a good example in serving and in loving and in doing all of the things that you know that the Bible is telling you to do.

And I think that your spouse will see that.

That's so good! Absolutely!

Um, yeah, so my answer was just going to be fast, pray, and then model, which you kind of summed up all of those beautifully.

So great job! This is the bomb.com!

Um, have you ever been in a situation in your marriage... and this is the outside question... where you felt like it wasn't working, and what did you guys do?

I'll risk it and answer first and say no.

Honestly, never!

And that may not be encouraging for somebody that is experiencing that.

And there's probably a lot of reasons, a lot of factors in why.

There's a lot of miracles behind how we even met, how we got together, the immigration process.

There's so many moments along the path where we're like, "I think God really wants us together."

And so I think that's given us some confidence going in that even when things are rough, it's like, "No, this was of God."

Um, but then on top of that, there's a lot of work that we did before we started dating, before we got married, that that compatibility question was answered very thoroughly for us both.

And so when you're able to answer compatibility questions, you know, parents, money, politics, religion, all of those things, when you're in alignment going into the marriage, I think that your odds of not having that moment of, "Man, did we screw up? Did we miss it?" really changes things.

And then because we both have that same background of just serving others, we both have entered into this marriage trying to put the needs of our spouse first.

And if you're both doing that on a consistent basis, man, the bad times are not that bad.

And what I would say is that if that is where you are with your relationship with your spouse, don't sit on it, but do something about it.

Like, if you are feeling like, "You know what? I don't think that we're working out," seek help!

Seek help now!

That it is just like a, "We might not be working out," instead of trying to get help when there's the last resort and it's the last panic button that maybe this will fix everything.

I think that if you're starting to feel something, don't sit on it, but really get with somebody that can help you, that can guide you, that can mentor you, that can be helping you navigate the different issues that you might be experiencing.

But don't just ignore it!

Yeah, the cool thing, next week, we're actually... I'll be interviewing our marriage counseling department and getting their input and their advice and their thoughts on, you know, struggling in marriage.

So whoever asked that question, make sure you're here next week. That'll be a good starting point.

And one of the questions here is, how do you guys feel about couples counseling before marriage and during marriage?

Yes! Do it!

Yeah, all for it!

We've set a probably a bad example, though, and I'll just own that.

So we did premarital counseling, but since we got married, we haven't gone to counseling.

We've had moments where we've gotten advice on some things, but it was a very casual kind of moment.

So we haven't modeled it, not out of, I guess, not liking counseling or not believing in counseling.

I don't really know why we haven't... do you know why we haven't?

We're lazy!

I don't know! I don't know what the reason is, but yeah, 100% in favor!

I think counseling is great!

I think that a lot of people probably wait too long to go to counseling.

They use it as the last ditch when it actually... if you had done things earlier, even premarital counseling, you could have been given the tools to navigate some of the little arguments that all of a sudden become huge arguments because you don't know how to deal with them.

Yeah, I mean, I do know of a situation where there's a couple who do need counseling, but one of the people in the marriage is not interested in counseling.

So what advice would you give for that situation?

Start with you!

Like, if you are the only one that shows up for counseling, you show up!

Because as much as you need both of you to be able to have the tools in how to deal with this situation, sometimes you need to have the tools yourself.

You know, so we cannot always just expect that everybody's going to want to work at the same time.

So if you feel like you need to do it, do it!

And start from there!

Like, you never know what is going to happen once you are having the right tools and the right processes and learn how to manage your emotions or whatever it is.

Um, I think that you need to start with yourself.

Yeah, and before I go to the next question, there are some poll questions that you can scan and participate in, and we'll address those.

But the questions keep coming in, so if we don't get to all of your questions, we will be continuing the conversation on our podcast in between sermons.

How many of you guys are subscribed?

Yeah! Thank you, the one person!

Okay, there you go!

So make sure to tune in; it happens weekly, and we're excited about that.

So these questions are intense!

Um, what do you do if you feel ignored by your spouse, and how do you change that?

Have you guys ever encountered that before?

Before you answer that question, I did very early on in our marriage.

I don't even think that we had kids yet, so we were young and wild, and my husband really liked video games.

And there were a lot of times that I felt like he would prefer to play a video game than spend time with me, and I felt very just set to the side.

Uh, and honestly, I didn't handle it very well because my natural response to conflict is to shut down.

Like, I just don't want to say anything about it. I just don't want to... I don't want to fight about it. Let's just ignore the problem and just knowing my personality, I'll be fine in an hour, right?

Like, I will be joking again just a little bit, so just let me be mad for a moment, and then we will address it.

But my husband, being a little wiser, he will always force me to speak and to say what I was feeling.

And there were a lot of times, especially in the beginning, that my actually saying something was not very kind or very nice.

It was very explosive because I realized I'm just battling everything up because I don't want to deal with the emotions, and it was not pretty.

So what I would recommend is to just have an open conversation.

You know, but again, I think that it comes to the whole freedom of being able to express yourself.

I think that you both have to create this environment where you are able to communicate, where you are able to say whatever it is that is bothering you, no matter what it is, and no matter if the other person thinks that it's just dumb.

You know, because if feelings are real, so if you feel abandoned, if you feel neglected, or if you feel anything, even if the other person doesn't see it, that doesn't negate your feeling.

You know, so you need to be able to have that space that is open so that you can be able to say, "Hey, I feel like you would rather play a video game than being with me."

And of course, when I told him that, he's like, "No, I don't!"

But he never saw it from my point of view, so you have to communicate.

And it took me a while to be able to do that because I don't like it! I don't like it!

Yeah, I think that one took us longer to get through than it should have just because I was very naive.

And so like, it's late at night; I go to play a video game. She just goes off to the bedroom, watches some telenovelas, and falls asleep, and I'm like, "This is a great system we have!"

Like, she gets to watch her shows; I get to play my games.

Like, this is amazing!

And for like a year, I'm like, "This is great!"

And what I didn't know is that for that year, she was going to the room going, "This guy is an idiot!"

So thank you for having patience with me!

Yeah, it is just... it's communication! It's communication!

And it is, again, it's grace!

You know, we all are humans, and we fail, so we need to be able to give grace to each other as we are getting together, as we are learning each other.

And even if you've been married for 20, 30 years, you're still learning that person.

You might not know every single thing about that person; things change!

So you still have to give grace and not say, "Well, we've been married for 20 years; you should have known by now!"

Have you ever communicated that?

You know, that's good! That's really good!

So this question, I feel like, gets a lot of heat: the word submission in a marriage with strong women.

No, just... what does that look like in a marriage? What is your perspective? And have you ever struggled with, you know, trying to make sure that's a solid foundation in your marriage?

Still want me to go first?

It almost feels like it was to me, right?

I mean, well, you know, like I... the Bible talks about how wives should submit to their husbands, and I stand behind that 100%.

However...

She said "but."

However, I think that it is easier to submit when you know that your husband is submitted to Jesus.

If I know that my husband is following Christ and is really looking for our family to grow in the faith and for us to be closer to Jesus and be disciples of Jesus, I can submit to him because I know that the authority that he has over me is not just as, "I want to rule, and I want to decide what you're going to do," because those are two different things.

I think that for me to be able to submit to my husband is understanding that he is searching Jesus for our family, and I can trust that what he wants is our best, not that what he wants is for me to only wear this color and never cut my hair.

And you know, I think that there's a lot of things that can be more manipulative than true biblical authority.

So I think that those are two different things.

So should we submit to our husbands? Yes!

But I think that our husbands should be submitted to Jesus first.

Yeah, that was a fantastic answer!

Um, so I'll just add to it. So, um, somebody correct me, but I think it's three places that we hear that.

I think Peter says it in First Peter, and then Paul says it in Ephesians and Colossians.

There might be a fourth that I'm missing; somebody can correct me afterwards.

Um, but the danger of those passages is that people will wrongly apply those.

And so there's almost like two ditches that people will fall in with it.

Uh, there's a group that will take it and translate it as, "Women submit to men," which is not in the text in any of the three places.

All three places, it's "Wives submit to your husband."

Like, it's a one-to-one submit; it's not just a blanket statement.

So all of the questions about sexism in the Bible and all that, that doesn't even apply to this conversation.

Um, the second issue with these is that in one of the passages, I know it says, "To submit to each other" right before it says, "Wives submit to husbands."

So there is this mutual submission that should be happening.

It's supposed to be a model of the relationship between the church and Jesus.

That's why it's depicted that way.

Uh, on top of that, it is not instruction for the husband to enforce on the wife or the wife to enforce on the husband.

Uh, and what I mean by that is it becomes abusive when a wife pulls out her Bible and says, "Look right here, honey! The Bible says you are supposed to love me and sacrifice everything for me."

It's just equally as abusive for a husband to pull out the Bible and point at that verse and say, "See, wife, you are supposed to submit to me."

These are instructions written to the individual.

So all you have, husbands, all you have to worry about is loving your wife as Christ loved the church.

You don't have to worry about her part in that equation.

You're responsible for what you're supposed to do.

Wives, you're not responsible for the husband doing his part; you're responsible for you doing your part.

And when we both do our part, it's a healthy relationship; it's a healthy marriage.

But when you try and enforce that on the other person, it becomes abusive.

That was so good!

Good stuff!

Aren't you guys happy that these are our lead pastors? They have such a beautiful, healthy relationship!

So important! So important!

Um, a poll question: Who is always right?

And you guys can participate in this.

Who is always right?

And what I mean... we already know, right?

Who?

Yeah, who's always right?

Me, of course!

Okay, okay! Is there any other question?

If anybody says Brent on that poll, I'm sorry, but you haven't been paying attention!

No, I think that everything depends on what, though!

It depends on what!

Okay, but in theory, in general, who's always right?

Soul's right!

Even when Soul's wrong, she's right in some way!

That's good!

Just takes me a minute to realize how she's right, even in the wrong thing!

Hilarious!

Okay, so I'm curious, do we have results?

Hey, look at that!

That 15%! I love you! I love you, but you're wrong!

I think it just makes sense!

I mean, it makes sense!

So what do you do when you have disagreements or when you feel like Soul is not right?

Like, how do you guys handle that?

Communicate!

I think there's not like a... you know, a magic formula or some hidden secret.

You talk things out!

Uh, and you're going to have disagreements; it happens!

We have disagreements all the time!

Uh, we've probably had disagreements this week!

I don't even remember what they were because we handle them in the moment!

You talk about it; you try and see eye to eye.

Uh, and then we live in mutual submission.

And so even if what I think is right goes is going to make her feel a certain way, man, the relationship's more important than me being right.

And that may have been the most important lesson that I ever learned.

I actually got it from, I think it was Bishop Garlington.

Uh, what did he say?

You can be right or you can be reconciled.

And I've just lived my life choosing reconciliation over being right.

Like, I don't... my ego doesn't need to be like, "But I'm right!"

No, I'd rather have a happy wife than be right all the time!

Yeah, and I think that for me, the way that I approach this is with patience.

She needs it with me, right?

With patience and with grace!

You know, and of course with prayer!

Like, I think that you have to always invite God into your relationship, even in the moment that you feel the struggle, even when there's a disagreement.

Um, there's times that I know that I have something that has been brewing in my heart against Brent or that, you know, we are in the middle of the disagreement, and I don't know what to say.

Like, I just say a prayer!

You know, like, "God, help me! What am I not seeing? Or what am I supposed to say now?"

Um, because we cannot have our marriage separate from God.

I think that we need to invite Jesus into a relationship if we really want a godly marriage.

He has to be the number one!

So even when you don't see eye to eye, even when things are not going how you wanted it in this conversation, then it is a moment to pause and just say, "What am I not seeing?"

Is it just something that I am saying?

Is it the situation itself?

Is it something that is happening behind that they are just projecting at this time?

Because that happens sometimes!

Sometimes you argue about not what is happening in the moment, but something that you've been carrying all day, you know?

And you've been carrying this stress all day, and then something happens, and you explode, and it wasn't even about that!

You know?

So being able to just pray and say, "God, what is it?"

And allowing God to just either calm you down or give you the right words to say or give you the right demeanor, all of those things are super important.

But you also have to be patient because if you want patience, you have to also give patience.

And sometimes we want it one way, but we don't give it.

So we have to do both, and it's not easy, but it's possible!

Okay, okay, friends!

Yeah, you're so honest!

But this question, my good T, who... who?

That's why she calls me friend!

I see it!

Is who controls the money?

Oh, the money, honey!

Oh, Brent!

Okay, Paul, who you think?

That's not a heated question at all!

That is... is that a poll question, though?

That's a poll question!

Who do you think controls the money in that house?

Oh, I already gave you the answer!

Oh, this is just in general!

Who do you think is better with money?

General, but in your house!

In your house?

Yeah, our house is not like a blanket statement for everyone because I know a lot of people that it's reversed.

But no, 100%! I control the money, or else we would have none!

Um, be on the street!

Like, for real, for real!

So Soul was given the spiritual gift of buying things!

It is her anointing in life to spend money!

Yeah, like I think that if you want to see my spiritual gifts at work, take me to a store and say, "Pick something that you like," and I can guarantee you it's going to be the most expensive item!

And I'm like, "Really?"

Every single time!

Do you like these shoes or those shoes?

I like those shoes!

Those shoes are three times the price of those shoes!

Every time!

Every time!

That's hilarious!

Okay, what's the poll saying?

Me or women?

I agree with you; in my house, it's the same thing!

Oh, look at that! Pretty, pretty split!

I like that! That's pretty balanced!

But yeah, so I do the budget; I pay the bills, all that stuff.

I've tried a few times to give her information so that if I were to get hit by a bus, we wouldn't be in trouble.

But, Carlton, you're going to have to help my wife if I get hit by a bus!

Oh my... like, I just want him to tell me how much I have in my fund money and then do whatever you want with the rest!

Like, just... yes!

I agree! Fund money is the key!

Yes, it's the key to happiness!

Yeah, and I guess the question was about control, and there really is no control.

It's what's mine is hers; what's hers is hers.

Um, you know, it's just... it's just how that all works.

Uh, so I guess who's responsible for the money? I would say it's me.

And I think that it is very important to be self-aware, you know?

Because for us, like, we figured out very early on if I am the one that has to be responsible for this, my brain is also very fly.

So like, we will not be paying anything on time because I'm like, "Oh, that was today!"

Like, it will be bad, you know?

So I think that it is good for the relationship to understand who has a better sense of responsibility and of finances, you know?

Like, who has more understanding of it?

Um, and it is not about then you control it as in controlling, but if you are... if you have a better head on your shoulders for this, it will make sense that you take point on that.

And I don't think that it should be an issue when the two of you fully understand that this is the person that is doing it because they are best at it.

Yeah, and I think the key is we're in agreement on the money.

And so like, I'm not going out and purchasing crazy things; she's not going out and purchasing crazy things without a conversation.

We're talking about things.

Well, we were in agreement with that.

We did buy a puppy yesterday!

Um, but, uh, yeah!

Well, go on social media; got tons of pictures!

Uh, what I was going to add to that is just, um, I had a thought, and then it just vanished for a brief moment.

Thanks for the puppy remark!

Um, it was something golden; it was going to be life-changing, and I forgot it!

So I'm... hate when that happens!

So we're going to slide into the parenting style because I feel like that parenting style can keep up... it could either be good or bad.

Um, but in your home, what is your parenting style, and who is the good cop and who's the bad cop?

Uh, I would say in general, I'm the bad cop, and Soul's the good cop.

Um, which is interesting because a lot of times, you know, when I'm in the office and she's at home, which it's kind of 50/50, but when I'm in the office and the kids were acting bad or doing something, she would text me and say, "Hey, when you get home, you need to deal with this."

And so I would walk in the door, and I would deal with it, and then she'd be like, "Oh, don't be so mean!"

I'm like, "I literally am just doing this because you told me to!"

Like, so yeah, I'm the bad...

You got to drive home to think about it, get in parenting mode, and then you get home, and you're like unleashing, and then it's like too late!

Right?

You know, I don't like confrontation at all, and that includes my children.

So when they were little, and I had to put them in timeout, like, I'm talking little, little, I will literally go to the bathroom and cry because I had to tell them, "You did something that you were not supposed to do!"

And I'll be like, "That was so... like, I would call them!"

I'm like, "But he's in timeout!"

And he's like, "It's fine!"

I'm like, "It's not fine! It's terrible!"

So I cannot just go to my kid and say, "Yeah, you're misbehaving right now; you got to stop it!"

It's so hard!

And then I realized how much I was putting on my husband to be the bad cop, and I didn't want the kids to then just associate Brent with, "Oh, he's going to come; he's going to yell at us."

So I realized I had to step it up, and I had to also do stuff that I don't like.

And it's hard! It really is hard!

But I think that every time that I'm done yelling at them and stuff, then I'm like, "Are we friends now? Can we just hang out?"

And they're like, "No, I don't want to see you right now!"

I'm like, "But we're friends, right?"

And then I'm trying to hug them, and it doesn't go very well!

But U... but we're trying! We're learning!

Yeah, so we only got a couple more minutes, but I would just say rapid-fire parenting style: we're parents, not friends.

Uh, that doesn't mean we can't be friendly or have fun together and be friends in the process, but we are parents first.

Uh, and then we need to make sure that we're recognizing that.

So discipline is real; there are expectations, there are requirements, all of that.

Uh, and then I've learned that it's better for me to say, "I believe in you" than to say, "I'm disappointed in you."

Um, and so that was a big lesson that I had to learn.

That I want to believe the best in my kids, and even when they mess up, there's a way that you can phrase it and say that, "Man, I believe in you! I know that you know better than this, that you can do more than this."

Uh, and if I just keep talking about the belief that I have in my kids more than disappointment I have in my kids, I think they just grow up healthier.

That's really good!

Well, to conclude our conversation, the final question I have is what advice do you have for people listening to this message?

Uh, newlyweds, people who aren't married yet, or people who are just desiring a healthy marriage life.

What advice would you give?

I think that I will just echo what I kind of said a little bit earlier, is that don't separate your marriage from God.

Make sure that you are inviting God into every aspect of your marriage or your relationship or your future relationship.

You know, if you are not dating anybody yet, start asking God for the right person and say, "God, who the right person for me is?"

But more than anything, "Make me the right person for them as well."

So whatever it is that I need to start working on right now, show me so that I can be fully prepared when that person comes.

But if you're already married, you're already in a relationship, make sure that you make time as a couple to seek God together.

That going to church is not, "Well, maybe we don't have anything else to do," but that it is a priority.

That you are putting God first because when we honor God and we put Him first, we will truly see the benefit of that in everything else that we do.

So it is not just an added bonus, right, to have God, but it is a necessity!

Like, if you really want a godly marriage, you're not going to have it without God.

So you have to seek God together; you have to seek God personally, and you have to allow the Holy Spirit to show you what it is that you need to work on as a couple, but also personally.

So good!

I love it!

Um, so the Bible says, uh, Jesus didn't come to be served but to serve.

And I think if we take that mentality into our relationships and we just say, "I didn't enter into this marriage to be served, but to serve," it is just... it's such a better relationship.

And so go into it believing, "I'm here to serve my spouse."

Whatever they do in response, that's on them; that's between them and Jesus.

Uh, but I'm here to serve, and the more I can serve, the better I serve, the more I look like Jesus in this relationship, the better the relationship is!

Amen!

Well, give it up for our lead pastors! They did amazing!

Oh, so wonderful! Goals! Hashtag goals! You know, hashtag goals!

Okay, um, so we have to wrap it up, but we do have a lot of questions that came in.

Again, tune in to our Between Sermons podcast where we will continue the conversation.

And thank you guys for being so open and transparent, and um, yeah, this is great! Great job, folks!

But wasn't that good? Let's give them another hand as they exit!

So my wife wasn't in here for this when she was up in Growth Track. I'mma let her know that they said I'm the boss!

That's what I learned from this!

And y'all going to be like, "How you used to get that black eye?"

Oh, okay, so anyway, um, yes, I drew a blank there for a second.

So Encounter Night, what is that?

Uh, first Wednesday, coming up this Wednesday, we have renamed it, rebranded to Encounter Night.

And what is Encounter Night? It's a time where we go a little deeper with more praise and worship and prayer, and we will take communion as a church, and it's going to be awesome!

So show up this Wednesday at 7 o'clock!

Um, come and expect the presence of God to be here because it is!

And then first-time guests, thank y'all for coming again!

Let's give them another round of applause!

Just outside these doors, don't forget to go to our Loft and pick up our free gift that we have for you.

And that's about it!

Prayer team, if you would like to come down to the front, we always have prayer down here after service.

So anybody that needs prayer, our altar team will be down here to pray for people.

And let's stand on up and get the blessing and get out of here!

1) "I think that when we truly serve one another without expecting what you gain but what you are giving, that makes the love stay fresh. Serving is sexy, and it works both ways." [01:09:41] (Download)

2) "If you are praying for your spouse and actually doing your work for your own person, I think that God will honor that and start putting that fire in that other person to say, 'I don't want to be lagging behind.'" [01:13:28] (Download)

3) "I think that God will start putting that fire in that other person to say, 'Well, I don't want to be lagging behind.' So I think that you just need to do your job as connected to Jesus as you can and be a good example in serving and in loving." [01:14:02] (Download)

4) "I think that every time that I'm done yelling at them and then I'm like, 'Are we friends now? Can we just hang out?' and they're like, 'No, I don't want to see you right now.' But we're trying, we're learning." [01:37:07] (Download)

5) "I think that I will just echo what I kind of said a little bit earlier, is that don't separate your marriage from God. Make sure that you are inviting God into every aspect of your marriage or your relationship." [01:38:12] (Download)

6) "I think counseling is great. I think that a lot of people probably wait too long to go to counseling. They use it as the last ditch when it actually, if you had done things earlier, you could have been given the tools to navigate some of the little arguments." [01:17:29] (Download)

7) "I think that it is easier to submit when you know that your husband is submitted to Jesus. If I know that my husband is following Christ and is really looking for our family to grow in the faith, I can submit to him." [01:23:50] (Download)

8) "I think that you have to always invite God into your relationship, even in the moment that you feel the struggle. It is moment to pause and just say, 'What am I not seeing?'" [01:29:53] (Download)

9) "I think that not everybody knows him that much, but he really is the guy that will put everybody first, and it is for me even inspirational because there's times that I'm like, 'Dude, but you're tired.'" [01:03:22] (Download)

10) "I think that you both have to create this environment where you are able to communicate, where you are able to say whatever it is that is bothering you, no matter what it is." [01:20:33] (Download)