Hey everybody, Mark here. Thanks so much for joining us on this not-to-miss episode of the Meno Moments podcast.
To be honest, I don't know how to start this episode. It is quite a heavy episode, and I just want to throw that out right in the beginning. We get the privilege of hearing Jenny Gerlock's story. She is a member at the Saratoga campus and had attended San Jose previously.
In the first part of the conversation, we get to hear about where she grew up, when she went off to college, and how she met her husband. They moved back to the Bay and had three kids. Then it pivots after that. We talk about how one of her children is diagnosed with a terminal illness, and then Jenny so bravely and willingly invites us into recollecting the night where she tragically lost her husband.
As you can imagine, this episode is heavy; it's full of loss and grief. We talk about how God is still God through it all. Jenny is inspiring; she's brave. To be honest, this was one of the most intense and yet amazing conversations I've had with someone, podcast or not. I'm very grateful for her, and she is just such a blessing to our community with her willingness to share this story.
This would be a great episode to share with those that may be struggling with some of the themes that we'll talk about later in the episode. So if you need anything at all, if you're struggling with something similar, or if you just want someone to sit with you in your grief, you can text our team at 650-600-042. That number comes to me and our prayer team here, and we want to enter into that space with you if you would like us to.
So enjoy this conversation, and now let's go ahead and hop into this Meno Moment with Jenny.
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Hello, my name is Jenny, and this is my Meno Moment. I attend the Saratoga campus. I've been attending since we became Saratoga, but I started at the San Jose campus. I don't really know how long ago that was, but it was when we were at Brandom, and then we went to San Jose, and then I came to Saratoga.
I'm so excited for this. Thanks! I'm so glad to be here. This is a fun experience.
It should be really fun in the mysteriously identical...
It's so good!
I know, right? A weird basement studio that is kind of a studio. It's on its way.
It's where the magic happens!
Yeah, it's going to be good. So were you born and raised in the Bay Area?
Yes, I grew up in the mighty land of Livermore, which, if you're not familiar, is as far in the East Bay as you can go and still be in the Bay Area. We take tremendous pride in it, and it was a great place to grow up. It's a fun little world where we have a National Lab, there's a lot of scientific people there, we have tons of wineries, and a big old cowboy population. So we kind of have this fun mix of these three different groups that just makes the world a better place.
Yeah, it's really good. It sounds a lot like... I went to school in SLO.
Oh, I went there too!
I did! I love SLO!
Okay, continue.
I knew I liked you for more reasons than that!
Yeah, but okay, cool. SLO is good. Same kind of deal: smart engineers, cowboys, liberal arts teachers, everything in between.
Absolutely! Fun! It just makes a fun little dynamic to grow up in.
Definitely! Like, I think today I'm feeling kind of cowboy, and tomorrow I feel scientific. It'll be great!
Exactly! And what was your family like?
So I grew up in a family of four: my mom, my dad, and my brother. My brother's older than me. My dad worked at the National Lab as an engineer, but he was a full-time youth pastor because our church didn't have one. So for 35 years, he and my mom volunteered.
I actually grew up in a high school youth group. Let me just say, like, that is a magical and, in a good way, experience. Everyone should have the opportunity to grow up in a high school youth group with a small child.
My childhood was filled with just so many grand adventures and just my parents modeling what it meant to serve, and also me watching so many people as they go through their experience with Jesus and what their journey might look like. I didn't think it had a huge impact on me, but as I get older, I just see how all of those stories and all of those bits of my experiences have made me into the person that I am today, especially in the circumstances that I'm in.
It is like those foundations were laid by just watching the people around me and kind of growing up in a high school youth group. It was super duper fun.
I learned very quickly that you do what you love and you bring people with you, and so that's always been my life motto because that's what I grew up with. I had my immediate family, and then I had all of my church family, which many of them I call my honorary parents. They're the ones— they're like the parents I listen to when I don't want to listen to my own.
Oh yeah, I know! I'm pretty familiar with those. Everybody's got to have one, right?
I don't want to listen to my mom; I'm going to call this other person and see what they have to say.
Who would have thought they would have said the same thing as my mom?
I know! It's like they talked beforehand. It's a little dodgy.
Exactly! It's okay, though.
Which is great because you just grew up in this huge community. You know, and I'm sure my parents feel better about that too, in that there's so many people just feeding into my life. So it was just a huge blessing to have such a small family but then such a connected family. It was a cool opportunity.
Yeah, you talk about it very positively. In the moment, were you the "I'm excited to go to church" or were you the "You can't make me, why are we going again?"
Okay, I was the all-in church child. I was like the Veggie Tales. I will choreograph your dances! Like, it's sin! I was all in, all of it!
Right? I had all the songs. We did all of the musicals. I did the 30-hour famine. We had all the silly... like, oh my gosh, it's so good! It's the best thing in the world, right?
You know, and we did like the rockathon to raise money. We were all in rocking chairs for 24 hours, like raising money for our youth group, going to summer camps. Like, I did it all! I was on the worship team, and then I was a part of the elder board as like a student representative.
Wow!
Yeah, it was... I mean, you know, whatever. It was great, though! I thought it was super cool. So I was the all-in church child. I was in the stage productions, and I knew that I graduated like in church world when I was like the Bible child.
In the same production, my dad played Peter the Apostle, and then we both graduated, and he played Jesus, and I played Mary. And we're like, "Yes! We have made it in church world!"
You did! It was a big deal!
I had like the long robes. It was stunning!
Really awesome! A gorgeous purple!
Wow!
Yeah, that just makes me think of so many... like you unlocked so many childhood memories for me because I also grew up—my mom was my children's minister at the small little Japanese church that we were going to at the time.
So it was just a mix of going to work with my mom during the week and then going there on the weekends. And I was kind of like you, where I was excited. I participated in just about everything.
Yeah!
But my mom and dad were pretty wise in allowing me to make the choice to go or not.
Cool!
'Cause I think if they would have said, "You have to go," I would have been like, "Nope! I'm not doing that! I'm doing something completely different!"
Yeah, that's cool. That's a good opportunity.
It was!
And so from there, you grew up, went through high school there?
Yep!
Went off to college at Cal Poly?
I did! I went to Cal Poly! It's a great option!
Fantastic! What did you study?
I started as a music major in cello performance.
No way!
Yeah! It was so good! And then I was like, "I don't think I want to teach cello lessons my whole life." So I was like, "Well, I better add a science major because I had a great science teacher in my senior year of high school."
And I was like, "Well, I kind of liked that subject, so I guess I should probably be a scientist."
Okay!
And so I added the second major, and I was there for six years.
Years?
And everyone was like, "Six years for your undergrad? Like, you're not going to be late!"
I know, right?
I wish I would have stayed longer!
Right? And there were a lot of other things to be doing. I was in InterVarsity, and I was skating and surfing and, like, you know, sleeping on the beach, doing all the things!
The best!
Obviously! And I was like, "Well, you're not going to be late for the rest of your life, so yeah, let's just hang out! It's going to be great!"
Now, I tried to do well and get good grades and all these things, and there was some tension with the parents who were like, "So, are you actually getting a degree at the end of this, right? Yeah, we're paying for another year! Six years, Jenny! Come on now!"
But it was such a blessing. I got super involved in InterVarsity, and I was leading worship for them.
And then there was a church that I was super involved with, which was also super fantastic. It was just a great foundational and formative experience for me.
And I got a second major in biology, so I actually graduated with two degrees in music and biology, which is super fun because it feeds both sides of my brain, and I can kind of go any direction with it. It's super duper cool!
Yeah, it's really a blessing!
So we often hear in church world, like, "Okay, if you go off to college and you study science, you're going to come back an atheist."
Oh yeah!
What was that like growing up in church and then kind of making the transition to studying biology? With having a faith background, how did you balance that?
It was a really interesting journey. I actually had a couple of teachers that pretty straightforward called me on it, and they're like, "You can't be a Christian. You can't be my TA because I think you're going to preach to my students or something like that."
And it was a super... and it was somewhat like not hostile; that's the wrong word, but it was a very confrontational conversation.
And a little bit like, "Whoa, friends! I am a scientist! I believe all of these things about the amazing creation! I just believe that God is the one that created it!"
And so it took me a long time to figure out kind of that balance. But what I came to is that, in my opinion, I think because of the cello major, God is an artist.
And when people picture Jesus, they all have these pictures of like he's holding the sheep or he's got his thing or he's like the warrior Jesus or he's like, you know, hanging on the cross or whatever, or the laughing Jesus. That was the big one in my church as a child, was the laughing Jesus picture.
And everybody has these images of who Jesus is to them. To me, when I picture Jesus, I picture that I'm like sneaking up behind him, and he's standing in water, and there's like greenery all around, and I like peer through these bushes, and he's there with like clay in his hands, and he's like molding that clay and creating things.
So when I picture him, I picture him as an artist first. So when I think of him as a scientist, I feel like my faith is based on his artwork.
And so the way I describe it to my students is I say it's like God has left little Froot Loops in a trail to his creation, and it's my job as a scientist to study to follow those Froot Loops to see his creation because there's gazillions of things we're never going to see that he creates only for his glory.
And I think that like a musician can never take their hands off their instrument. You're like, "Stop playing!" and they're like, "Stop playing! We're trying to talk right now!"
And musicians can't do that, and I think God can't do that either. I think he's always creating incredible things, and that he puts out this little Froot Loop trail where everything points back to him.
And my job as a scientist is to walk down that Froot Loop trail, and conveniently, because of my background, well, you do what you love and you bring your students with you. So I'm like, "Come on, guys! These are the cool things I'm learning about!"
And then you can point it back to Jesus and say, "Don't you see? All of this is his creation! It's his artistry!"
And so that's my favorite part of my job is actually bringing those two things together because so often we think it's this dichotomy, but it's not! They feed beautifully into each other.
And so I would challenge anyone who says that faith and science can't go together, I would say, "No, actually, I think they fit beautifully together."
And so, you know, consider looking at God's path as he builds this world and these people and his creation and look at it as an artist.
And our faith is studying all of these cool things he's created for us to find, and it's so cool!
Like, okay, I have to tell you one quick one because I'm a nerd.
Okay!
They just discovered a few years ago this octopus that like lives in the bottom of the ocean. They live really, really low.
A little elephant octopus or something?
I wish! But I do love that happy friend! I just want to be like, "I love you!"
But it's not that one, but it's a really cool one. But it sits on its eggs for four years! That's like unheard of in the animal kingdom world, at least as far as my knowledge.
Now, there's probably someone who knows more in the world than I do about this or knew that octopuses had eggs.
Yeah!
Yeah, they sit there on these eggs for four years! How the mother feeds, we don't know. How it survives, we don't know. It's at a really cold temperature, so we think like the mother kind of goes into this semi-hibernation situation.
Wow!
But it's so cool, and we just discovered it like a few years ago, and I'm like, "That is God being like, 'Isn't this nifty? And look it! I've given you the technology and the now to look for that and study it!'"
Or like the sparkle muffin spider. It's this little tiny spider, and it's all rainbowy on its back. It's like the size of your thumbnail. We just discovered it like in 2016 or 2018. We didn't even know this whole entire family of spiders existed, and they're super pretty because they're rainbow-colored.
And also, they have this fabulous courtship ritual that they do, and it's just incredibly cool.
And to me, it's just so much evidence that God is such an artist, and I love, as a scientist, that I get to be like, "Guys, look it! Look what we get to look at today!"
Anyway, sorry, that was a little science moment, but it's so cool!
Yes! So that's kind of how I feel like the two come together.
And I love that!
So it sounds like you didn't go on to teach cello full-time afterwards?
No!
Okay! I actually found that my passions lie in the intersection of things. So a lot of times we're like, "I'm going to be a marine biologist," and you go study marine biology, and that's great, and we affirm that.
And then you're like, "I'm a musician! I'm going to go study music!" and that's great, and we affirm that.
But it's in the intersection of things that weird stuff happens. And so I actually went on, I got a master's in both degrees, and I actually teach classes at San Jose State and on various online colleges that are like the neuroscience of music cognition and it's like how our brain processes music and how our body responds to music.
And so it's fun because it's kind of this... I'm not researching in it or anything, but I get to learn about it, and it's super cool to see how our brain, the science of our brain, and the interaction of how music fits into that.
So it's been a really fun game to kind of take all the things I love. You know, everyone tells you to choose your path. I'm like, "I don't want to!"
So I just kept going in all of the paths to see where we kind of came together, and now I get to dabble in all the things, which is like so fun!
That is awesome!
It's incredible!
Cool! And you're a teacher now?
I'm a teacher now! I teach high school science. I teach biology and anatomy and physiology to 9th, 10th, 11th, and 12th graders, and teaching a couple colleges too just for kicks and giggles on the side.
And it is the best job in the history of the world! I'm pretty sure if you're in the market for a new job, you should probably consider teaching because it's amazing!
That's a great pitch for teaching!
I also have married a teacher!
Yes!
And so she's been in and out of the classroom in education for the last 10 years or so. She went to Cal Poly as well. She did education, so that was great!
But we need more teachers!
We do! We really do!
Guys, it's fun! You can like seriously influence the path of someone's future! Not that we're trying to be like power-hungry, but oh my gosh! I could have someone who doesn't like science, and by the end of the year, they could like science, and then I've won!
Right?
Anyway, that's amazing!
So then let's talk about, after you studied in SLO, did you move back up here, or what was life like after that?
Yeah, so I actually met my husband in SLO. He was my sound guy, and I was his worship leader.
Oh yeah!
And I really didn't like him, for the record. He was like, "Your sound sucks!" And I was like, "Oh, I'm a music major! You can't tell me that my sound sucks! Also, who do you think you are telling me, the worship leader, that my sound sucks? No, thank you very much!"
Anyways, we figured out our differences. It was fine. And then the next year, he was the worship leader, and I was his backup pianist and vocalist.
And so we worked it out, and we became super good friends.
Yeah!
In the last two weeks of our time at Cal Poly, we decided that we actually needed to have the DTR and define the relationship, and we started dating, which was great!
But he was an engineer, and so he went to Colorado and Costa Rica with Engineers—it's called Engineering Ministries International. It's kind of like Engineering Without Borders—to go design bridges in at-risk communities and all that.
And I went to Inner City Fresno to go do a service project for a couple of years, looking at God's heart for the poor and issues of social injustice.
And figured while I was there, I should get a master's, so I worked on my master's in Fresno, which was great. I was at Cal State Fresno.
Okay!
And it was great! And then Josh finished his time in Colorado and Costa Rica, and he went to UC Berkeley and got his master's.
Okay!
So then we both graduated at the same time, we got married.
Were you dating that whole time?
The whole time!
The whole time! Long distance is tough!
It's tough, but it forces good communication, and also like, "Yes, go and do!" Like, this is the time! We have the time to do it!
I was doing my thing; he was doing his thing. We'd do phone calls at weird hours because he was in Costa Rica.
That happens!
Happens! We get through it; it's fine!
And then we both graduated, we got married a couple weeks later, and we started living in Fremont. He got a job there.
At the time, we had the whole housing crisis and the bubble pop and all these things. And so there was only one company hiring, and there were two positions, and homeboy got the job, which was amazing!
And it was right here in San Jose, just downtown, right by the Shark Tank or the HP Pavilion or whatever, the SAP Center.
And I started teaching in the community college, and we lived in Fremont for a while. Then we bought a house in San Jose and did the things: got a house, had kids, got involved in churches, continued to work. It was great! It was like the dream life!
Was he from here as well?
Yeah, he actually grew up just in South San Jose. Also, his family is here as well.
Yeah!
So he grew up here in San Jose, and he is a pastor's kid also. And so he grew up in the church doing all...
We get it!
We get it! We were the first ones there, the last ones to leave! That's what we do!
And it was great! And his parents were also super musically involved for a long time, so he grew up as like the church kid in the choirs and doing all the things.
And then they had other pastoral positions, but he got it! We did it together! We were the PK kids!
Yeah!
It was great!
And then how did you guys find yourselves at Meno?
Yeah, so when we first got married, we went to Josh's family's church, which at the time was... well, it's Redemption now, and it was great! We loved the worship team; it was such a blessing to be a part of it. Incredible musicians, just an incredible experience—really, really large church.
And we loved it, but it was such a big church, it was hard for us to find connection with people that were like us.
And so we went there for a long time, we had our first kid, and it was just really difficult to find a place to connect with people that were like us.
Also, because it was such a big church, people were coming from all over the Bay Area, and like we were going, you know, to like Belmont for our life group, which is great! We love those people; it's just a long drive on a weeknight.
And so we started looking around at other churches, and my friend at work—I work at a Christian school—so my friend at work was like, "Hey, I go to the Meno Park main campus, but we're opening this San Jose campus."
And I was like, "Oh, okay! Let's check it out!"
And I knew that I loved the teachings that were coming from Meno, and I had a really good friend who attended here at the main campus, and he's like, "Yeah, you should check it out!"
And so we started checking it out, and it was when we were at Brandom High School, and we loved that it had the backing of a big church, but it was a small church community, and it was like six minutes from our house, which was incredible!
Right?
And when we first got there, like our kid was totally welcomed and loved. We could see ourselves being involved, and really quickly, we just got involved in the worship team. We both auditioned together, and we were both like accepted or whatever onto the worship team.
Received, accepted, approved!
Did they tell you your sound was good?
We were told that our sound was okay!
Okay, so dodgy!
And so we quickly began to build our community. We joined a life group, and at first, we joined this life group, and they were glorious, but they were all in a different stage of life than us—like, you know, 40 or so years older than us.
And we loved them!
Like, maybe we should find like a young families... and at the time, I was super pregnant with our second kid.
Super pregnant!
Like, maybe we should go to like a young families life group!
So we found our life group then. That was, what, six, seven years ago? And we're still with them!
Wow!
Like, it's our group! They're our people! They're our tribe!
And they've just done life with us! So we got connected, and then we've been with Meno ever since!
Wow!
Yeah!
How quickly were you there since like they had like their first Sunday there? Like, were you there on that first Sunday?
The first Sunday in the new, like, theater?
Yeah, the S campus!
Yeah, we were there!
No way!
It was super cool!
Yeah!
It was just a really incredible blessing to be a part of that transition.
And I don't know if we were there on the official first Sunday. I feel like we were out of town, but we were there from the beginning, you know?
Okay!
And that was... I think it was Adam Pateli was the pastor.
Was Bryce the worship leader?
Yes! Oh my gosh!
Was it Bryce? No, it wasn't Bryce; it was Renee for like...
Renee!
Yeah!
And then it was Bryce, and then it was Tatiana, and we loved all of our worship leaders!
It was just such a fun community to build into, and it was super cool to be like a husband-wife team on the worship team together, so we got to enjoy that a lot!
Definitely!
And Adam Pateli was like... he started teaching at my school also, so he was my pastor and also my colleague at school.
And so he was the football coach!
That's when he was the football coach!
Yeah!
He'd come downstairs and like check out my science, and I'd go check out his games, but I know nothing about football!
Good job, Adam!
Did he know anything about science?
No, I'm not sure he knew all that much!
But it was cool! Like, "Go, my favorite sports team!"
Yeah!
"Good job, Adam's team! Get the goal! Do the thing! Run faster!"
It was really fun!
So that was also really cool just to have him on campus. Like, even though we hardly saw each other, just to have him around and be like, "Hey, those are my church people!"
It's nice when your communities can kind of overlap!
Totally! And in San Jose, it's a big place, so that doesn't happen all that often, you know?
So that was just a really cool thing to have that there as well.
And then you had your second kid?
We had a second kid!
And so we joined our new life group with the young adults people just right after we had our second kid, and we were like, "Huh!"
So my second kid, as a scientist, is super fascinating; as a mother, it's a little bit terrifying. He was born with 12 toes, and so nobody caught it. Like, the doctors didn't catch it, but like four hours after he was born, Josh was like, "Hang on a second! Oh, what's going on?"
And he like called the nurse over. He's like, "I'm really tired. Can you just confirm? Like, are there 12 toes there?"
And there were!
And so we knew pretty quick we weren't on a typical path. We were hoping that it would just be like a, you know, "Oh, we just remove the toes, and we're going to be good."
But that's kind of an odd conversation: "Hey, congratulations! You just had a kid! And when are you cutting his toes off?"
What?
So that's kind of an odd conversation.
So we joined our life group like not selfishly, but a little bit like, "Oh gosh, we need some solid support! Like, we're going to need some help!"
So I remember at our first life group meeting being like, "Um, hi! Yeah, we're Josh and Jenny, and we have kids, and we're going to have a pretty significant surgery on our second kid like in the near future, so dinners?"
Yeah!
Like, you don't want to be that person, but we were like, "We need prayer! We need prayer, and we need dinners!"
Because we just didn't know, and we were terrified, you know?
And so we joined that life group, and they were kind of like, and still are, our backbone and our support and all of that.
You know, and then we had a third kid, and that was amazing and delightful.
And the fear of having a third kid after the second one has some pretty significant things that we didn't know what they were, and we didn't understand.
And so my mom was a special ed teacher, and so like there's enough knowledge there to know that we don't know quite enough, but also like, "What path are we on?"
That was a scary journey.
So to have that group of friends who had kids of the same age to be like, "Hey, this is happening," and just to have that support and love, and also people that knew us and knew our kids for who they were, to feel accepted and loved and not judged, like that was huge for us to know that I could bring my kids and not be embarrassed or ashamed or nervous about how they would act.
Not that any parent wants to be that, but you know, we all have those moments where you're like, "Oh yeah, my kids just did that. Sorry!"
You know, it was really cool! It still is really cool that we go through this life together in that way.
Yeah, it's really huge!
Wow!
Yeah! Sorry, that was a lot of words!
No, that's okay!
And so did it end up being more than just 12 toes?
Yeah!
So in October, so we chose to not get him tested. We got him tested. No, we started down the path very young because as a special ed teacher's daughter, I knew like early intervention is a big deal.
Whatever we can do to support, and he was not hitting milestones super well, but he had some significant surgeries in the first year of life, and so there was like questions about like, "Are we not hitting milestones because of those surgeries?"
Okay!
And so we weren't quite sure.
And I love, like, I'm so grateful for medical and our medical system and all of that, but also know that sometimes once you get on the treadmill, it can be hard to get off of it and to know when it's appropriate to get off of that.
Like, "We're going to keep going till we find answers," but we don't have answers.
And so we chose to get him as many supports as we could. We chose to pursue a little more, but everybody was kind of scratching their head.
You know, as a scientist, you know you win when you meet with a doctor, and they pull up an x-ray, and they're like... when the surgeon is speechless, you're like, "Oh! Oh, that's a different path!"
Wish this wasn't my kid!
Right?
As a scientist, tell me about what you're thinking! What process is going on in your head?
And as a mother, like, "Please reassure me everything's going to be okay! Please tell me it's okay that this is normal and you see it every day!"
So there's always this dichotomy in my life: like scientist, cool; mother, okay.
And so, you know, we chose to get him all the services that we could to support him as best we could, but we were finding that as he was getting older, there were more milestones that we were missing.
There were things that were not super typical, and we got a little bit like, "Okay, we don't want to stick our head in the sand."
We want to make sure that we are doing our due diligence.
And so for various reasons during the first part of the global shutdown during the COVID-19 pandemic, we're not happy about that, but as a scientist, it was super fascinating.
So we're in the shelter-in-place, and we were just really aware because I was sitting there doing school with my kid every moment of every day, realizing like we are really not accessing this material or accessing this material well.
Right?
And then we started to like, "Okay, maybe we need to push a little harder."
And because I had a background, I worked at that National Lab for a very short period of time in my college years, and I had a background a little bit in genetics, so I was a little bit nervous to step into the genetics realm because of my experience with the research that I had been doing.
And so I just want to be super confident that was the right path before we start looking for things that were wrong, 'cause sometimes in genetics, if you go looking for things that are wrong, you're going to find things that are wrong because everybody has weird things in genetics, and I wasn't super confident.
Okay!
But we decided to go down the path, and we got him genetically tested, and they did find that he had a super duper rare genetic disorder.
There's 23 cases in the entire world, which, you know, as a scientist, well, if you're going to have something, it might as well be rare and cool!
Yes, please!
But as a mother, like, "Oh gosh, there's one paper that's written on his condition."
And so, of course, like this is the funny ways that God works, right? Because of course, with my background, I was able to read that paper and understand it, which is cool because my background is in science.
But, you know, also I can read the paper and understand it, and if I didn't understand bits, I could go get help from my people.
So his condition is a neurodegenerative disorder where he will eventually deteriorate, and there's a high likelihood that I will outlive him.
And because it's such a rare thing, there are so many different expressions of that particular disorder, and so we just have to be monitored by, I think we see 17 specialists at Lucille Packard right now, just keeping an eye on all of the things because nothing is terrible, but nothing's exactly right either.
And so that's kind of the journey that we were on. We chose to get him tested, and we're glad that we did, and we are able to get services.
And I'm so blessed to be close to Lucille Packard, like the mecca of a lot of these places.
I've been able to work with Lucille Packard to get some articles published to reach out and encourage parents, like if you're on a hard path, like find someone to walk with you.
And like the genetics team has become my go-to team, which who would have thought?
And to have those supports and those services in place, and so we just feel super blessed to have like Lucille Packard and super blessed to have a life group that has walked this journey.
And even our leadership at our church, you know, there's been a lot of turnover just because things were hard for you guys in the pandemic.
I cannot imagine like trying to hold the church together in a pandemic!
But just having people that know our story and our journey that are like, "Hey, I don't know what you're doing today, but like we're praying for you."
Like having people that are current, it just means so much!
So yeah, it's not really the journey we wanted, but here we are.
Yeah!
And I am so grateful for him and for my other children and for the journey that we have in the sense of, "Well, let's do it together!"
Sure!
There it is!
Did you stop at three, or did you have more?
We had three! That was enough! Man, three is... the chaos is real!
And were you in the same house that you originally moved into in San Jose? Did you have to upgrade and get more space?
So we moved between kid two and three.
Okay!
We were like, "Okay, we had a two-bedroom, one-bath, and it was great, and we loved it. It was in the Alum Rock area, and it was glorious."
But we were like, "Oh, if we're going to have another kid, probably another slightly larger house."
And we were fortunate to be able to do that, and so that was just a huge blessing.
And we bought this house that was falling apart in all of its ways, but that's the only way we could afford it because that's how it is.
You know, the dirt was spray-painted green.
Right?
Like, "Oh, is that grass?"
No, that's spray paint on the dirt!
Awesome! We'll take that!
That's fine!
Basically artificial turf at that point!
Totally! Which means in our price range, so we're good with that!
So we bought a house, and so we have the blessing and the opportunity to get to fix up a house, which is tons of fun.
We're very DIY-type people, and it was a huge blessing!
Yeah!
Wow!
And you're still in the house now?
Still in the house now!
Yeah!
Projects are still finishing up!
Okay!
Well, I think that always happens in home ownership!
Usually does!
Keeps going forever and ever and ever!
Yeah!
And so, developmental-wise, I think you told me that your son was like... moves okay, but is better off when exercising or stuff like that as well, and so that kind of played a role in why you bought the house that you bought?
Yeah!
Well, and it's funny 'cause we didn't plan on this, but the Lord knows his things!
Funny how that happens!
Where like the Lord gives you what you need before you even realize that you need it!
So we bought this house; it was spray-painted. The dirt was spray-painted. It had a pool in the backyard.
We didn't necessarily want a pool; we love water! We are water people!
But we didn't really want a pool necessarily 'cause it's like a lot of maintenance.
Better to like run through the sprinklers and have friends that have pools!
But it's a top tip!
You know, there you go!
But like the rebar was sticking out in the pool; the pool was showing through, and we're like, "But it still holds water!"
So I think a lot of people weren't interested in the house because of that, and it was in a state I would call of elegant decay.
Like, clearly, someone really loved it, but over time, it just kind of was starting to fall apart.
And so we bought it, and we fixed it up, and we have done a lot to fix up that pool.
And when Asher got his diagnosis, because his muscles are deteriorating, actually one of the best things is to have him swim!
Like, who knew, right?
So when we got his diagnosis, we actually originally were like, "Okay, the cost to fix the pool versus like fill it in correctly and landscape, it's going to be probably about the same."
So when we got his diagnosis, we were like, "Actually, change plans! We're going to go ahead and fix up the pool and not fill it in, and we're going to keep it!"
And it was such a funny moment of like, "Okay, Lord, you got us the house with the pool, which we didn't necessarily want. It was in bad condition. We were already having the conversations about whether we should fix it or fill it in, and we got the diagnosis when we did."
And we were like, "Oh, okay, pivot! We'll go ahead and just fix the pool!"
And so we're going to keep it and stay in the house because Asher needs the pool!
Yeah!
It's amazing!
Yeah!
And then just to give kind of people a heads up of where this is going, the next part of the conversation is probably going to be a little bit heavier.
Yeah!
Um, transition!
And so I'm just praying that it is okay for you, and you can share what you feel like sharing, and we'll do it!
I'm here!
Yeah!
We'll talk about kind of the things that happened while moving into fixing up this pool.
Totally!
So we started fixing up the pool in, I think it was 2020, is when we... October.
Well, right after his diagnosis in October of 2020, and my husband, who I adore, his name is Josh.
So Josh is amazing, but he's very like, "I'm not going to pay people to shovel dirt out of my yard! I can shovel my own dirt, thank you very much!"
So we would go out during the pandemic. Like, I know it was a hard time for so many people, but it was such a blessing for us.
We were a tight family, and we did okay. It was hard; it was hard!
But like, I'm a raging germaphobe who also like studies and talks about pandemics. My degree is in infectious disease!
Like, "Wow! This is cool!"
I mean, yes, it's tragic, and we don't want people dying, but also science is happening all around me, and I get to be a part of it!
Oh!
And I am a raging introvert who is a germaphobe, but you mean I have to stay in my house all day, every day with my family and stay away from germs?
I got to teach in Zoom, but I can wear my jammie pants every day! How is this a bad situation?
So for us, the pandemic was actually kind of a cool opportunity!
Oh! The power went down!
Okay, great! Bike ride! Let's all go!
You know, it was just a really cool opportunity!
So because we were re-fixing up the pool at the time, I’m a teacher; I go to bed at like 8:00 at night.
But Josh was a night owl, and he used to love to just go out in the evenings.
And you know, in the spring, it's still light for quite a long time. He'd set up all these work lights, and he'd work till about 10:00 at night usually.
And he always used to tell me, "Jenny, it's my happy place in the evening! My kids are in bed, my wife is asleep, and he would put a story or a sermon."
We figured out you didn't have to watch church on Sundays; you could do it in the evening when your kids were in bed, and you weren't trying to juggle your children during the worship.
What a crazy idea!
So we would watch church in the evenings, and that particular week that he was outside working—where I'm going with this—he was...
We didn't watch church together because I was folding laundry, and I had gone to bed, and he was like, "This is my happy place! I got a sermon in my ears! I'm shoveling! The wind is at my back, and my family is safe!"
So he's like, "I'm going to go out and work, Jan." I'm like, "Go, go, Josh! Be free! I'm going to go to bed! It's 8:00! It's well past my bedtime!"
And so he went out to work on a Tuesday evening, and he was working on a conduit line right near the pool.
The company had just redone the plumbing, and our pool was empty, but of course, we have small children, so we have nets up everywhere for added safety just to make sure there were no issues.
And he went out shoveling this one night, and I woke up at 2:00 in the morning, and he was not in bed with me.
And I was like, "Joshua, did you lose track of time?" 'Cause sometimes he would do that.
Okay, like, "Are you up till 2 in the morning shoveling? Homeboy, come to bed! Like, come on!"
So I go out to look for him, and I can't see him, and I don't know where he is. All of his work lights are on; the cars are there.
Sometimes Asher has trouble at night, so I thought, "Well, maybe he's laying with Asher."
So I went into all the kids' bedrooms to see if he'd fallen asleep while snuggling with one of the kids.
Sometimes, because I hate getting gas, he would like take my car and go get gas.
Like, "Maybe he went to get gas?"
Couldn't find him anywhere!
So I called the police and I said, "You know, my husband is missing."
And at this point, like, I'm pretty nervous, obviously, and I'm starting to like walk around the house and like look for him and look for signs of him, and I can't find anything.
He had his favorite shovel and his favorite tool, this big old bar called the bar, and those were both leaning against the fence, so like he hadn't even been using them.
I was like, "What is happening?"
And when you drain a pool of the water, you have to drill holes in the bottom of the pool because the groundwater will actually push the pool out of the ground, which is crazy.
So you have to drill these holes so that the water can come into the pool a little bit.
And so in the deep end of the pool, there's like 12-14 inches of water, and it's been that way for like a month now.
Like, not a big deal, but when I went out to look for him, you know, the safety net is all around the pool.
And I called the cops; I looked everywhere, and then I went back out while I was on the phone with the police, and I stood on the lawn, and I looked into the bottom of the pool very carefully.
But because he had so much light on the deck where he was working, there was just shadow in that deep part of the pool.
And it's water, so it's like shiny, so it's just shiny surface.
And I looked super closely, and I saw this bump in the bottom of the pool, and I was like, "Oh no!"
And so I'm on the phone, and I don't quite remember what I said, but I'm in flip-flops and socks, and I take this flying leap over this very tall fence, and I like run down to the bottom of the pool, and Josh is there in the bottom of the pool.
And he was laying on his back, and when I looked, the first thing I noticed is that the water is no longer water.
Like, his body is very broken, and now all of his blood is filling the pool.
And so, but his face is out of the water because it's only like 12-14 inches deep.
So true confessions, my first thought was like, "Oh my gosh, this is gross! It's a biohazard!"
And also, like, "This is my husband! Is this real?"
So I stood there, and I looked really deep for a second, and I'm on the phone, and I remember saying to the dispatcher, "Like, oh my gosh, call 911! No, wait! Don't call 911! I'm on the phone with you right now! I found my husband! Please send help! He's not okay!"
And so, you know, then the dispatcher is talking to me and talking me through the things, and I wade into the water, and I get down on my knees, and I... this is where the science kind of like saved me, right?
I started doing chest compressions. I started blowing... looking for signs of life.
And you know, there were lots of things that I knew indicated that he had been there for a long time, like, you know, hours.
And I just, by how he felt, and I'm a scientist, so I was looking for certain things, and sure enough, it was very apparent to me that he had been there for a while.
And I remember thinking like, "Find this structure and look for this, and why is this looking like this? This doesn't make sense!"
Like, my brain couldn't compute all of the pieces, but I remember thinking like, "I'm in flannel jammy pants and socks, and I'm soaking wet, and people are coming, and I have children in the house!"
So I'm on the phone to the dispatcher person still, and I run inside, and I change my clothes because I know that people are coming.
And I go back down and continue chest compressions, and I hear the paramedics running down like the side yard of my house, and I remember yelling, "We're here! We're down here! Please come help me!"
And so they come down, and I don't remember... I kind of blocked out at this part.
Well, my brain blocked it, I think. I didn't actually like pass out or anything, but I remember that they got there to Josh, and I remember looking at them as they were getting ready to do their things, and I remember saying, "Can I please not be here for this part?"
And so they said yes. I said, "What can I do?"
And they said, "Please go inside."
And I like, "Oh yeah, the kids! I got to go take care of the kids!"
So I went into my house, and I sat in my front room. My entire back of my house, the whole back of the house, including my bedroom and all the living room, kitchen, family room, all looks in the backyard.
So I went into the one part of the house where it didn't look at the backyard, and I sat on the couch, and the police are questioning me because, of course, I'm prime suspect number one.
Like, "How did he get into this position?"
And so I'm sort of under guard. They were wonderful; they were respectful; they were kind; they were very amazing police officers, but I'm obviously under guard, right?
And they're asking me all these questions, and I immediately call my sister-in-law because she lives locally, and I said, "Sarah, please come! Josh fell into the pool, and he's not okay!"
So then Sarah comes, and they question her, I guess, as she's coming in, and then I called my parents.
I tried to call Josh's parents, but they were not available.
They were sleeping, shockingly!
So it's 2:00 in the morning!
And so I called my parents, and I said, "Please come!"
My mom says I was yelling. I don't know that I was yelling, but anyways, and they question my parents on the way because they're trying to see if our stories are straight.
Anyway, and I was holding it together. I literally had the thought of like, "What is the appropriate thing to do right now? I don't know! I don't know what the right thing is!"
But I know that as soon as my daddy got there, I just kind of lost it because... and I talked to my friend about it later, and I was crying and crying, and I was like, "I don't know why I was fine until Dad got there."
She goes, "Of course! Because you were safe again! Because you weren't in danger, and there was someone to help you!"
And I was like, "Yeah, that's exactly what it was! I was safe again!"
Anyway, long story short, so the investigation is going on. Long story long, I guess.
The investigation is going on. At 6:00 in the morning, all of my back walls are windows, and my children are going to wake up.
It's a school night; this is a Wednesday morning now.
And I am like, "Oh gosh, we need to put up sheets because the water that is no longer water is still there."
They're still working on Josh, so at 6:00 a.m., they aren't working on Josh. Josh was taken away, but the police are all still doing their investigation.
And so I'm like, "Do we put sheets up? I don't have any blinds! I don't want my kids to see any of this!"
Anyway, the investigator comes in and says, "You know, Josh has died."
And he went through a lot of words that I can't really remember, all of those words.
But I remember asking, "I have two questions, if you don't mind, please."
And he said, "What?"
I said, "Do you know how he died?"
And I know the world we live in: "Am I going to need to go downtown today?"
He said, "No, you don't need to go downtown today."
I didn't know this, but later I found out that the police had gone and questioned all of my neighbors, and my neighbors all knew us.
It speaks to the value of our community, right? They all knew that Josh goes out in the backyard and he shovels. That's what he does.
We were building a deck; we had small kids; we always had church people over. They knew who we were, and they knew what we did.
And so I didn't ever have to go downtown. There was no question.
And, you know, they think... they thought at the time that he broke his neck and he died instantly.
Turns out later that it was not quite that, but close enough.
Yeah!
And so I was kind of hurled onto a path that I was not anticipating.
Yeah!
So the next few days were filled with explaining to your children and telling people what had happened, figuring out what to do next.
Because I found Josh in his broken state, I had and still have a pretty fantastic PTSD, which as a scientist, really cool!
Like, good job, brain! I see what you're doing there! Nice job!
Good attention to detail!
But, you know, as a human, like, it's not great, you know?
And so I had gone through significant trauma, and so the world was a really scary place.
Yeah!
And still, I live in that fear a little tiny bit.
I remember laying in bed with Shiloh, my at-the-time two-year-old, and I just remember laying there and thinking, "Oh my gosh, God, how am I going to do this? I have a special needs kid who just got a terminal diagnosis. I have a seven-year-old boy, and I have a two-year-old girl. What am I going to do?"
You know, but that was kind of the journey that I got to... that I was... was forced upon me.
What is that word? That was the journey that I got to... that was the dark and wretched path that I was put on.
It's a better way to say it!
Yeah!
What do you say? It's not what we wanted; it's not great, but here's where I am, and I'm okay that I'm here because this is where I am, and I'm going to live with that.
Yeah!
Thank you for sharing!
Glad to do it!
I can't ask like questions, just ask of what did... what was it like?
I mean, what was... how did you... how did the world... is the world safe now?
No!
How does that affect how you view things? How does it affect your relationship with God?
Yeah! Motherhood, all of it!
All of it!
It's such an interesting journey.
So the long and the short of it, when it comes to the world and its safety, apparently I teach psychology at a couple colleges, and so I know just a tiny bit.
I don't know very much, but I know a little bit.
And apparently, there are like different levels of trauma, and when you go through like an expected death, it's tragic, but it impacts you differently when you go through an unexpected death.
And it's a different thing if you find the person versus like the news is broken to you.
So I had fallen into like kind of the worst of all the categories.
Yeah!
So the fear of the world being unsafe was super real, and I still live in that fear.
The fear now is more like... like it's really hard when your seven-year-old son is looking into the backyard the day after his father dies, and we're literally siphoning the not-water out of the bottom of the pool.
He can't see anything, but he sees the hose coming out, and he looks at me and says, "Mom, did Daddy bleed a lot when he died?"
And I say, "Yeah, yeah, he did."
And he goes, "Is that hose taking Daddy's blood out of the bottom of the pool?"
And I said, "Yeah."
And then your son turns to you and says, "How come God did that to us?"
And what do you say?
That's not in the Bible!
What do you say to your child?
Ah! The Lord giveth and taketh away!
Like, what do you say?
And I feel like the Spirit has moved in me in good but also unexpected and weird ways.
The way that I manage all of these things is I say... I remember saying very early on, there's a song, "It Is Well" song, which for the record, it's not well!
I'm not there yet! Someday I might be, but it's not well!
But the... I think it's the Bethel version has a bridge, and it says, "Through it all, through it all, my eyes are on you."
And it became kind of like my inappropriate language to God of like, "Okay, God, this is not what I wanted, but my eyes are on you!"
Like in a snarky, upset child sort of voice, you know?
My dad loves the Lord dearly, and every now and then I would get that snarky poison, and he goes, "Jenny, Jenny, that's my God!"
And my dad and I are super close, but he's like, "Be gentle with my God!"
And I'm like, "He doesn't need gentleness! He'll be all right! He doesn't need it! I'm going to go ahead and curse at him! I'm going to pound his chest and be like, 'What are you doing? This man that loved you, that loved us, that was a servant for you, you took him!'"
To be clear, I don't think God took him, but God allowed it to happen, right?
And so that song, "Through it all, through it all, my eyes are on you," that was where it started.
And then... and people would ask, like my high school students especially, they're like, "We don't want to know about God!"
Not all of them loved you, this turns out!
We want to know, "How do you get out of bed every morning? We don't care about your spiritual... like the Lord is protecting you, and he's covered you in peace!"
And that's not where I was!
Anyway, I'm like, "I hope I can say that in 20 years, but I really can't! Like, I don't feel like God is carrying me! I kind of feel like he dropped me in a pile of cow dung, which is not great! Maybe in 20 years I can say that, but I can't say that now!"
And I couldn't say that to my students and my people.
And like, "I'm great! The Lord is... the Lord called him home early!"
No!
Take someone else!
God's got lots of people!
Why did you take my guy?
So when my students asked me that, they said, "How are you doing this? How are you teaching? How are you here?"
And I said... and this was a Holy Spirit moment because I don't know where I came from.
I said, "I am hanging on to God's belt loop, and he is dragging me along on the path that he has for me. I don't like it; I don't want to be here, but I know that he has some kind of light, and the darkness that surrounds me on this path is so much more scary to me than the plan that he has for me.
So I will hold on to this belt loop, and I'll let him drag me along because he is carrying the light, and I am more afraid of that darkness than I am of the light that he carries.
So I'm here, and I'm not excited about it, but I will stay close to him because that darkness scares me to death, and that light is the only hope that I have."
So when people ask me, "Where is God in all of this?" I say, "I'm hanging on to his belt loop."
And it's very interesting because it's been about two years now.
Yeah!
As I've progressed through this, I've thought a lot about how I would say I don't have the better words for it, but my entire life has built to this moment.
These foundations at Meno Church, in InterVarsity, in my childhood growing up in this church youth group, those foundations have built in me.
I call them the fibers of God.
I don't know; that was a Holy Spirit moment too! Someone was asking me, "How are you held together?"
And I said, "I guess it's just the fibers of God."
I wish that I could describe better, but it's literally this feeling I have of all of these beautifully sparkly and rainbow-colored fibers that run through my soul, and I feel like those fibers are holding me together.
And so it feels weird to say, but I very much feel like the Lord has built my entire life to these moments to say, "Don't you see, Jenny? I built you for this!"
So at night, things are still terrifying. My head gets into weird places. I watch movies all night long even now because I know that if I wake up, my head's got to turn to something else really fast because otherwise I get into dark and scary places quick.
And the only way that I can find enough peace to turn off the lights in my house, which there are a lot of lights that are still left on, is I picture there's a very specific spot in my hallway, and I picture myself laying there on the floor in the fetal position because that is all that I have.
When people are like, "Lift your eyes to Jesus," I'm like, "I can't! I don't have the strength! What does that even mean? Okay, great! Fantastic! That did me no good!"
And I don't mean to be snarky, but like a lot of those Christian isms were not helpful and actually very hurtful.
And so I would picture myself laying on the floor in this fetal position, very accurate.
I can't lift my eyes to you; I can't do anything! I'm going to just sit here and cry because that is all that I can do.
And it was weird because I feel... it's like the fibers of God thing, but I feel this like glowing orb of Jesus, which sounds super weird and hokey, but it's the only way I can describe it with words.
It's like this orb of Jesus that surrounds me.
Like, it's like an ooze that moves towards me, and it just envelops my body, which is like weird and bizarre and awkward, but I don't know how else to say it, so there it is!
And I'm sure it's glittery and bright also because it's better, but it is that glowing orb of Jesus that gives me enough peace to be able to turn off the light switch and go get in bed.
And so it's been this super interesting progression where I have... I am not well.
I'm trying! The spiritual disciplines are hard!
Like praying, journaling, reading the Bible—like these are all different things, and I am trying really hard to get back into them, but they're hard to go into these verses that I've grown up with.
They feel cliché and empty, or like, "Oh, and here's the pastor going to take it this way or this way or this way. Here are the options available to you."
And that's been hard for me.
But the way that I feel God move in me, I cannot describe the deepening of my faith.
I don't even have words to say how remarkable this feeling is.
My faith with God is stronger than it has ever been.
And it's interesting because through this journey and this deepening of my faith, I've come to this sort of like realization that I know there's something bigger going on.
In fact, three... so most of my dreams about Josh are dreadful.
He's bleeding; he's broken; somebody's dying; we're getting eaten by wolves.
I don't know! There's all these really weird random dreams!
And in the two years since he's died, I've only had like one and a half good dreams about him.
And the dream that I had, one really good dream about him, and it was three weeks after he died on my birthday.
And it was a real dream in a place where we were actually like... like it was the home that we met in at Cal Poly on Kentucky Street, in case you're curious.
And he was sitting at the table that we used to eat cereal at together, and he was wearing a shirt that I could have like pulled out of the closet.
And I said to him in that dream, "Josh, what happened the night that you died?"
And he told me what I think happened, but we have conflicting stories from the police, the medical examiner, and myself, so who knows what actually happened?
And I asked him, "Josh, did it hurt?"
And he said, "No, Jenny, it didn't hurt."
I said, "Josh, I miss you so much!"
And he said, "Jenny, if you could see what I see right now, it's amazing!"
And you know how in dreams you know things?
And like, I don't know what I believe about dreams, but like you know in dreams you know things.
He wasn't saying like Heaven's amazing; he was saying like this journey, this story that has an end that I don't know, but that he and Jesus can see—like this story is amazing!
And for some reason, this was an acceptable option in light of eternity, in light of something bigger.
And I had this like settling in my mind of this idea that, okay, God, whatever is going on up there, it must be so big and the stakes must be so high that this was an okay option to you.
That you would take the love of my life, a man who loved you, and you would take him from me because there's something huge that I don't understand.
Yeah!
And I'm okay with that!
Not that it's about me being okay, but that is some of the peace that I have found.
That there is something beautiful and vast that my mind can't comprehend, and I don't know what it is, but Josh does, and he says it's amazing!
And so I will hold on to that belt loop because I know that there's going to be something amazing, and that my story, I may not see it in this life, that's fine, but my story is going to be part of that amazing, beautiful tapestry that God is creating.
And so that is the hope that I have.
That is how I get out of bed every morning is knowing that there is something bigger and far more beautiful that I get to be a part of.
And whether I believe in dreams or not, I don't know, but Josh saying to me, "Jenny, it's amazing!"
Okay, I'm in!
I'm all in!
And Lord, you just... let's go!
I'm not ready; I'm not excited; I don't want this; I don't want to do it alone; I don't know how to parent alone.
It's really hard!
It's hard together; it's also hard alone!
Yeah!
But I'm in, and you tell me what you need me to do, and I'm going to be here.
And also, I might get mad!
Sorry!
But there it is!
And that's kind of what my day-to-day life is: that constant conversation of like, "I don't like this, but I
on Nov 14, 2023
