Standing Firm in Faith Amidst Darkness and Challenges
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Sermon Summary
Sermon Clips
"JONES: That's one question. Well, I'll start. I think everything is, in a broad sense, the darkness of the moment in a sense is relative. In other words, as someone alluded to earlier, we live in a cursed creation. It was mentioned that Romans 1 is our reality and how that's experienced will ... it's still ... we're under a curse. So, therefore, to one extent the curse of God which is progressively revealed it does become more pronounced, and so what we're experiencing now ... and I think we do have to kind of look both inside and out, what we're experiencing both inside the church as well as in the world. It's going to be more pronounced, but the fact remains it is still we're under a curse waiting for the full revelation of God's grace and the consummation of redemptive history." [00:38:52]
"FERGUSON: Chris, I think, what Paul says in 2 Timothy 3 at the beginning, verse 1—he'll be able to quote it—it's very helpful where he says, 'In the last days there will be times of stress.' And the language that he uses there for stress really connotes the notion of a kind of uncontrollability breaking out, and he goes on to list some of the features of such a time. And I do think he is distinguishing—Derek said earlier on, 'We are living in the last days.' Pentecost is the sign the last days have begun. But Paul does seem to be indicating that the last days will be punctuated by special seasons of stress." [00:42:48]
"FERGUSON: And when you read 2 Timothy 3:1 and following, it does read very much like a description of our own times in the Western world. And I think it's very helpful for us to recognize that when we look over the whole of church history, we've all been living in the same era. If I can use the word, we've all been living in the same dispensation, since—why should the dispensationalists have all the best words?—since the time of the apostles. But as you review church history—if Bob were here, he could do this quickly for us—you see that there are special seasons when there are incursions of the powers of darkness." [00:50:32]
"FERGUSON: And I think it's also significant that you see that running through Scripture as well, so that we've got a whole pattern in Scripture that helps us to view our own times, not as being unique, and the Scriptures give us very clear indications, I think, of how we respond to these special seasons when the Christian church or individuals experience unusual degrees of stress. We do tend to think that we're the first Christians in history ever to suffer, and partly it is because we're almost the first Christians in history never to have suffered very much. And we don't realize that suffering is actually normal in biblical Christianity." [00:58:48]
"REEVES: I think it's something that gets picked up in John's Gospel that we read, 'No one has ever seen the form of the Father,' but Jesus says when Philip asks to see the Father, 'You have seen Me. You have seen the Father,' that God is in His holy perfection unapproachable, unknowable, so that people say, 'We've seen God. We're going to die.' And it is only in the face of Christ the Mediator that God can be known and approached. And so, when we see, for example, Isaiah seeing the Lord, what are we to do with this? Well, this is picked up in John's Gospel where John refers to that incident with Isaiah and John says that Isaiah was speaking of Jesus' glory for he saw Him." [00:55:36]
"FERGUSON: Chris, can I say something I read I remember in Calvin, which I thought was a beautiful and simple way into thinking about this. He says there are times when the invisible God puts on His outside clothes. You don't have to do that often in Florida, you know, but you do in Scotland. You put on your outside clothes. And by putting on these outside clothes, he makes Himself visible. So, these manifestations of His glory that we find are moments when God is putting on His outside clothes, so that we can see His shape, as it were. And that what happens—this is not Calvin. This is Ferguson. What happens in the incarnation is that He puts on permanent clothing in our humanity that He will never dispense with, in the Son." [00:59:19]
"THOMAS: Well, in Reformed theology we distinguish between two types of sanctification. A definitive kind; Paul refers to us as a new creation. We are in Christ. We are holy. We are saints. We are set apart. So, something definitive and unchangeable happens at the time of regeneration, but we also speak of progressive sanctification. So, although definitively we are set apart, we are sinners still. We are saved sinners, but we are sinners still. And while we are in this world, there is 'The Spirit wars against the flesh and the flesh against the Spirit.' There is a constant battle between who we actually are in Christ and who sometimes the devil tells us we are." [00:55:36]
"JONES: I would just add to that. The concept of 'new heart' does not mean infused righteousness. It means an awareness and an affection of the things of God that were not existent before. So, when Paul says, 'In times past you were dead in trespasses and sins,' he is speaking of us being in a condition where we are not aware of our obligation to God. Now, we have the ability, again, as we cited earlier, Philippians 2, 'It is God who is at work within us causing us to will and do of His good pleasure.' So, a new heart simply means that we can now respond, we can desire to do good and to do the will of God." [00:55:36]
"THOMAS: Well, let me pitch in here. Our tradition, Ferguson and myself and I guess yours, says that the efficacy of baptism does not depend on the faithfulness of the one doing the baptism, and that if that baptism has come to fruition in faith in Christ, then it has done what it's supposed to do. However, in my experience, especially in Belfast where the predominant population was either Protestant or Catholic, Roman Catholics who were converted were never convinced by what I've just said. They had come out of darkness and into light. They had an experience of Christianity which was an entirely works-based, sacramental-based view of salvation, and now they're experiencing the joy of assurance and forgiveness and they wanted to be baptized." [00:55:36]
"FERGUSON: Well, I've done the same things, so. I mean, I think that there are pretty strong arguments if you are a confessional Presbyterian for taking that position. That was debated in the nineteenth century by two of the greatest theologians in Presbyterianism taking quite different views. And one to which I have been somewhat sympathetic was that our Confession of Faith says that baptism has to be administered by a gospel minister who has been properly ordained. And, therefore, I think there is a case for saying that if you accept Roman Catholic baptism you are ipso facto accepting Roman Catholic ordination, and I don't know any Presbyterian denomination to which Father O'Flanery rose up and they say, 'Come in, you are welcome.'" [00:55:36]
"REEVES: I really want to jump in on that one, because I'm so sorry that whoever that is has felt that, but there is a misunderstanding, a truncated, shortened understanding of the gospel here, that the Reformed love to talk about, 'Justification by faith alone,' how we have a new status because of Christ's righteousness imputed to us. Now, that is all forensic language, that it's about legal status that as a sinner I do not have the right to stand before God, but I am clothed with Christ's righteousness. So, I have a legal right to stand before God because of God's divine declaration. But that's not the sum total of our salvation. That is right at the heart, but it is not the totality of what our salvation is, for in order to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ, the Spirit must regenerate you, give you a new heart uniting you to Jesus Christ." [00:55:36]
"REEVES: Second, the privilege of being united to Christ is that we're given this communion with God. So, read some great books on—I don't know—the holiness of God, read some great books on who God is that you might know Him better, because what Reformed theology should teach you is not simply that we can be justified by faith alone, but it presents to you the highest, most glorious, most beautiful vision of God for us to enjoy, which is what we're made for. And if you're not doing that, it's because you've not actually been taking advantage of what is the central privilege of this theology. What do we believe? 'What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy him forever.'" [00:55:36]
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"FERGUSON: Chris, I think, what Paul says in 2 Timothy 3 at the beginning, verse 1—he'll be able to quote it—it's very helpful where he says, 'In the last days there will be times of stress.' And the language that he uses there for stress really connotes the notion of a kind of uncontrollability breaking out, and he goes on to list some of the features of such a time. And I do think he is distinguishing—Derek said earlier on, 'We are living in the last days.' Pentecost is the sign the last days have begun. But Paul does seem to be indicating that the last days will be punctuated by special seasons of stress." [00:42:48]
"FERGUSON: And when you read 2 Timothy 3:1 and following, it does read very much like a description of our own times in the Western world. And I think it's very helpful for us to recognize that when we look over the whole of church history, we've all been living in the same era. If I can use the word, we've all been living in the same dispensation, since—why should the dispensationalists have all the best words?—since the time of the apostles. But as you review church history—if Bob were here, he could do this quickly for us—you see that there are special seasons when there are incursions of the powers of darkness." [00:50:32]
"FERGUSON: And I think it's also significant that you see that running through Scripture as well, so that we've got a whole pattern in Scripture that helps us to view our own times, not as being unique, and the Scriptures give us very clear indications, I think, of how we respond to these special seasons when the Christian church or individuals experience unusual degrees of stress. We do tend to think that we're the first Christians in history ever to suffer, and partly it is because we're almost the first Christians in history never to have suffered very much. And we don't realize that suffering is actually normal in biblical Christianity." [00:58:48]
"REEVES: I think it's something that gets picked up in John's Gospel that we read, 'No one has ever seen the form of the Father,' but Jesus says when Philip asks to see the Father, 'You have seen Me. You have seen the Father,' that God is in His holy perfection unapproachable, unknowable, so that people say, 'We've seen God. We're going to die.' And it is only in the face of Christ the Mediator that God can be known and approached. And so, when we see, for example, Isaiah seeing the Lord, what are we to do with this? Well, this is picked up in John's Gospel where John refers to that incident with Isaiah and John says that Isaiah was speaking of Jesus' glory for he saw Him." [00:55:36]
"FERGUSON: Chris, can I say something I read I remember in Calvin, which I thought was a beautiful and simple way into thinking about this. He says there are times when the invisible God puts on His outside clothes. You don't have to do that often in Florida, you know, but you do in Scotland. You put on your outside clothes. And by putting on these outside clothes, he makes Himself visible. So, these manifestations of His glory that we find are moments when God is putting on His outside clothes, so that we can see His shape, as it were. And that what happens—this is not Calvin. This is Ferguson. What happens in the incarnation is that He puts on permanent clothing in our humanity that He will never dispense with, in the Son." [00:59:19]
"THOMAS: Well, in Reformed theology we distinguish between two types of sanctification. A definitive kind; Paul refers to us as a new creation. We are in Christ. We are holy. We are saints. We are set apart. So, something definitive and unchangeable happens at the time of regeneration, but we also speak of progressive sanctification. So, although definitively we are set apart, we are sinners still. We are saved sinners, but we are sinners still. And while we are in this world, there is 'The Spirit wars against the flesh and the flesh against the Spirit.' There is a constant battle between who we actually are in Christ and who sometimes the devil tells us we are." [00:55:36]
"JONES: I would just add to that. The concept of 'new heart' does not mean infused righteousness. It means an awareness and an affection of the things of God that were not existent before. So, when Paul says, 'In times past you were dead in trespasses and sins,' he is speaking of us being in a condition where we are not aware of our obligation to God. Now, we have the ability, again, as we cited earlier, Philippians 2, 'It is God who is at work within us causing us to will and do of His good pleasure.' So, a new heart simply means that we can now respond, we can desire to do good and to do the will of God." [00:55:36]
"THOMAS: Well, let me pitch in here. Our tradition, Ferguson and myself and I guess yours, says that the efficacy of baptism does not depend on the faithfulness of the one doing the baptism, and that if that baptism has come to fruition in faith in Christ, then it has done what it's supposed to do. However, in my experience, especially in Belfast where the predominant population was either Protestant or Catholic, Roman Catholics who were converted were never convinced by what I've just said. They had come out of darkness and into light. They had an experience of Christianity which was an entirely works-based, sacramental-based view of salvation, and now they're experiencing the joy of assurance and forgiveness and they wanted to be baptized." [00:55:36]
"FERGUSON: Well, I've done the same things, so. I mean, I think that there are pretty strong arguments if you are a confessional Presbyterian for taking that position. That was debated in the nineteenth century by two of the greatest theologians in Presbyterianism taking quite different views. And one to which I have been somewhat sympathetic was that our Confession of Faith says that baptism has to be administered by a gospel minister who has been properly ordained. And, therefore, I think there is a case for saying that if you accept Roman Catholic baptism you are ipso facto accepting Roman Catholic ordination, and I don't know any Presbyterian denomination to which Father O'Flanery rose up and they say, 'Come in, you are welcome.'" [00:55:36]
"REEVES: I really want to jump in on that one, because I'm so sorry that whoever that is has felt that, but there is a misunderstanding, a truncated, shortened understanding of the gospel here, that the Reformed love to talk about, 'Justification by faith alone,' how we have a new status because of Christ's righteousness imputed to us. Now, that is all forensic language, that it's about legal status that as a sinner I do not have the right to stand before God, but I am clothed with Christ's righteousness. So, I have a legal right to stand before God because of God's divine declaration. But that's not the sum total of our salvation. That is right at the heart, but it is not the totality of what our salvation is, for in order to be clothed with the righteousness of Christ, the Spirit must regenerate you, give you a new heart uniting you to Jesus Christ." [00:55:36]
"REEVES: Second, the privilege of being united to Christ is that we're given this communion with God. So, read some great books on—I don't know—the holiness of God, read some great books on who God is that you might know Him better, because what Reformed theology should teach you is not simply that we can be justified by faith alone, but it presents to you the highest, most glorious, most beautiful vision of God for us to enjoy, which is what we're made for. And if you're not doing that, it's because you've not actually been taking advantage of what is the central privilege of this theology. What do we believe? 'What is the chief end of man? To glorify God and enjoy him forever.'" [00:55:36]
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