Reflecting Christ's Love in Marriage: A Divine Mystery

"and I want to talk though about uh the interpreting of scripture because this is this is something we need to be very careful with now that we live in a day and age where everyone has their own Bible um most you don't bring it but I you probably have one and uh you have your own Bible and you can read it and then you you come to conclusions as you read it I just want to throw out some warnings to you with uh interpreting scripture first of all it's my conviction that not everything needs to be interpreted um a lot of it is very clear you know like we don't have to interpret everything like like when I say hey you guys we need to all leave this room right now do you need someone to interpret that for you no you understand it you get it now if I said okay now couple of you understood me and are giggling but uh the rest of you would need need an interpretation and and that's the same thing with scripture there's certain things where it's like does that really needed interpretation and one of the first things you learn in in Bible College when you're learning to interpret scripture is the principle that if the literal sense makes sense seek no other sense in other words if you read it like everyone should leave this room okay let's go that it just you just take it literally but if there are passages where you're like wow that doesn't really make sense and it's hard to understand and that's when we go okay let's let's apply some other rules of Bible interpretation but I just want to say let's be very careful because this passage in Ephesians 5 I've heard a lot of people interpret it different ways but I haven't seen a lot of people tremble at it and that's what God says this is the one to whom I will look he who is humble and contrite in heart and who trembles at my word so in Ephesians I'm going to just go back to the passage Lisa already covered um verses 22 to 25 says wives submit to your husbands to your own husbands key so not just any husband um wies submit to your own husbands as to the Lord Lord for the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church his body and is himself its savior now as the church submits to Christ so also wives should submit in everything to their husbands now uh there's not a lot that needs interpretation here so the question is is why are there so many different interpretations of this passage and the answer to that is well we don't really like it so it must mean something else and so we try to figure out a way to make it but you like well the verse before says you know we're suppos to submit to each other submit to one another but and so so Pride doesn't mean that wives submit to husbands then husbands should submit to wives too it's like well that's not what the passage says in fact what the passage says is he uses the example of the husband being the head of the wife even as Christ is head of the church he uses the example of Christ so right now whatever Christ says goes I submit I come come under whatever he says in this book there's not a mutual submission in that oh yeah and he comes under me too no the husband is the head of the wife even as Christ is the head of the church I just want to throw out a couple of thoughts um as you interpret scripture when necessary um be aware of three things your desire your logic and your experience your desire your logic and your experience this is where I've seen myself and others go with stray in Bible interpretation our interpretation is Tainted by our own desire our own logic or our own experiences rather than looking at the word of God objectively and through the power of the Holy Spirit we often bring our desires into the interpretation so you have to look at a passage like this and and other passage I look at there's there's passages I look at and I don't really like the way they read it's not my desire and so a lot of times when I go to the scriptures I go okay what do I want this to say what is my fleshly desire because what we end up doing is going well I want this to be true and so then you can you can start messing with words and this and that I used to do this when I didn't believe in miracles and I didn't believe in spiritual gifts it wasn't that that was the natural reading of scripture I just didn't want to become one of those weird prophetic guys that's like oh I Heard a Voice from the Lord he told me this you know and I i' look at all the those people and go gosh they're so weird they don't care about the scriptures they're just making up stories they're seeing visions and this so I'm like I don't want to be that so every time I'd read a passage of scripture that would talk about the supernatural I would explain it away and go well that was for back then that must have been for back then when it says don't forbid the speaking of tongues don't despise prophecy I'm like well yeah that was for back then and the literal sense of the scriptures I because I had a desire in me I don't want to get into that world I don't want to become one of those people you see what I mean like your own desire then affects the way you interpret scripture another mistake I've seen people make is their own logic they use their own logic and go yeah I don't don't think God would say that I mean he says that we're all equal so why would he and you start using your own logic I remember years ago there was a book called love wins and uh and it was all based upon human logic it was it was kind of like well why would there be a hell I mean I wouldn't create a hell I mean would you do that to your children you would have you know and it just became this reasoning based upon well I wouldn't do that well guess what I wouldn't give my son to die for you either you can't go by your own logic in Isaiah 55 God makes it very clear God says my thoughts are not like your thoughts and he goes my ways are not like your ways you see how the heavens are so much higher than the earth that's the way my thoughts are compared to yours and that's the way my ways are compared to yours so if you look at a piece a portion of scripture and go well I don't think like I don't think that way who cares your thoughts are here down on the earth his thoughts are so far beyond don't let your logic ruin your interpretation of scripture you know when some of that is sometimes we come into scripture with presuppositions too like we were all taught or many of us you start off in your Christian walk and you're taught a certain thing um you're instructed a certain way and so in your mind you already go oh I already someone already explained that to me that that submit means don't submit uh you know they are you know I I was raised with and you were taught these things and so you just kind of go on with that I'm just saying just be careful of that the literal sense makes sense seek no other sense and then thirdly our experiences can really affect this and I want to I want to think about this for a second you know some of us have had horrible experiences in life maybe you've seen passages abused maybe some of you guys grew home grew up in in homes where there was abuse and maybe your dad beat your mother and use passages like this to justify what he did maybe some of you ladies have been in abusive relationships and I am so so sorry and we would love to pray with you talk that through with you but understand that your hurt can also cause like this defense mechanism where I will never come under the leadership of a man cuz I've seen what happens I saw what happened to my mom and so now suddenly you're coming to the word of God and based upon your experience you're going I will not ever believe that because of what I've experienced I'm just saying look I am so sorry and we want to love you through those difficult situations care for you during those situations but let's be careful when we are reading the word of God not to alter it to what we want based upon our experience our desire or our logic does that make sense um and it's interesting and when we look at this passage in Ephesians usually all the negative push back comes from this part no one really pushes back on the next verse uh verse 25 husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for for her and people are like well yeah it's easy for you I what do you mean it's easy for me oh yeah all I have to do is be Jesus that's easy so easy so my role is just to be Jesus and love my wife and give myself up for her sacrifice everything for die for oh yeah that's easy husbands love your wives as Christ love the church that are you kidding me think about how Jesus loved the church I was thinking about it this afternoon I was thinking about Jesus looking at me and going I it's it's it's about him giving himself up for us you know there's this this thing of That's Not Fair the maale roll is so much easier is it picture Jesus on the cross the thing is is if we do this right no one's going to Envy our position I I think about the life and death of Jesus do you envy that when when you watch The Passion of the Christ do you go ah lucky him I wish I could be up there no you just you ball your eyes out you go God you did that for me Jesus he went to the cross for me see Jesus lived this difficult difficult life and then he suffered and died to make my life wonderful and now he says husbands do the same thing for your wives you get to be Jesus you sacrifice you suffer to make her life wonderful because I want the world to see what I did for the church and so they should look at you husbands at the sacrifices you make for your wife and go wow that is crazy everything he does for her to the point where they may even ask you why do you do all of that and then you go well that was the example I was given in Jesus that's what he did for me and the Bible says husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church this is massive I I can't the more I study this more I'm realizing how big this is every male every husband should memorize this verse meditate on this verse and even as I'm speaking right now you should be praying this saying God help me love Lisa like you love the church Steve should be praying help me help me love Sarah to that extent Peter should be praying in his head right now God this is such a tall or help me love mercy and sacrifice and suffer to make her life wonderful the way you did for me how do you do that when we're so naturally selfish and self-centered and that's but this is what it means to be Spirit-filled right remember this is this is him describing the Spirit-filled person you you speak to one another in Psalms hymn spiritual songs you sing you make melody in your heart to the Lord You're always giving thanks for everything to God the father in Christ Jesus and you submit to one another out of reverence for Christ that's what the Spirit-filled person is and then he says okay wives submit to your husbands as to the Lord you want a Spirit-filled home follow this pattern and then husbands you love your wives as Christ loved the church church and gave himself up for her see I want to be spirit filled I want to just truly be one with God his Spirit filling me and the Bible is clear that unless my relationship with my wife is right I can't be that Spirit-filled person in fact first Peter 3 7ish says that uh you know husbands you better treat your wives as a fellow heir of the grace of life so that your prayers may not be hindered it says you need to honor your wife as a weaker vessel and treat her with this respect as a fellow air the grace of life so that your prayers will not be hindered so there something that hinders your prayer life if you're not treating your wife as a daughter of God um the whole idea of me being given the authority in the home the leadership in the home I just see that as scripture now what is also scripture is how I use that Authority Authority and I'm supposed to use that authority to bless my wife so it's it's kind of like saying hey honey I'm in charge of the finances of this house so I need you to take $300 and go to the mall right now and buy yourself something nice I mean I don't do that often but it's it's that idea it's it's like with the position I've been given the authority I've been given do I use that for her or there may be times when I go you know what honey because I'm in charge of the finances and I I see this need in Ethiopia we're going to not go to the mall for this month and we're going to give this this uh money to uh the the orphans there in Ethiopia those who are starving there in Ethiopia why and I am looking out for you because you're going to get an eternal reward from this you know so there's this responsibility that's like okay I'm supposed to lead her in this way a great great passage to look at is John chap 13 most of you familiar with this passage it's Jesus at the Last Supper when he says Jesus look at what it says Jesus knowing that the father had given all things into his hands so so what does that say Jesus knew who who he was he's like look I've got all authority I am the most powerful person in this room I'm the most powerful person on Earth the father has put everything under me and it wasn't like Jesus didn't know that he was I know who I am I'm the god of the universe and that he had come from God and was going back to God Rose from supper he laid aside his outer garments and taking a towel t it around his waist then he poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples feet and to wipe them with the towel wrapped around them love that passage I love it and I hate it you know it's like wow what an amazing amazing picture of leadership Wives come under your husbands husbands be like Christ to your wives you see how when we we come under this type of relationship this type of relational thinking you see how there'd be Harmony in the home you see how it would be a Spirit-filled home if me having Authority my thought is and my example is Christ who had all authority it's just once you're given that Authority how do you use it it do you display that type of humility and servanthood and give yourself for your wife I tell you there there would be so many problems solved if we as men obeyed that verse so many problems would be solved you'd have a wife that really wouldn't mind submitting to that type of leadership I mean there's some that'll they won't submit no matter what but for the most part um and then you also won't have so many wives saying I want to be the husband see when you're a servant no one envies that no one fights for that position that's why I'm saying no one Envy Jesus on the cross the god of the universe that's why I see you know I was sharing with the elders we're praying in this kind of game I go wow you know even in church just like in the house in the church there can sometimes be like this positioning for power I said but if we were the greatest servants no one would say oh I want to do what he does it's it's just like when guys like me get up on a stage and it seems like you're commanding the attention of people and everyone's looking they're like oh I want to do that but if I really lived out the Christlike life and really was the servant that God called me to be there wouldn't be a jealousy over that there'd be an admiration we admire Jesus we just don't envy and I think a lot of the problems in the church is that we've we've kind of followed the example of the world we you know go hey I'm an apostle you know I'm a prophet I'm you know Elder son so you know I'm and it's just really and then people oh I want to be Archbishop I want to be this I want to be that but if we were the greatest servants there wouldn't be women going how come I don't get to do that honey you can wash my feet anytime you want you know it's it's just if that's the example if that's who we are but it's just that we've kind of followed the world's way of doing things and we start enjoying the power not realizing what we were supposed to do with that leadership position um next verse verse 26 he says that he might sanctify her having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word so that he might present the church to himself in splendor without spot or wrinkle or any such thing that she might be holy and without blemish see this is what Jesus did for us right he Sanctified us we were a mess we were in our sin and what he did was when he died for us and gave himself up for us he did that so that he could cleanse us that's where we started this whole journey in Ephesians right that that we might be holy and blameless before he chose us before the foundation of the world that we might be holy and blameless before him in love he predestined us for adoption why he wanted us to be clean so he gave gave his life he suffered for our cleansing and there's he he wanted us to be able to come before God one day and he goes look there's my church there's my bride she's spotless because of what I did for her and I see that as part of my role as a husband I should be thinking about my wife's Purity her sanctification that's part of my role that's why I'm the husband I use it to serve her to bring life into her but it's also to bring her to Holiness sanctification however that looks I I just ask you husbands like when's the last time you thought about your role in sanctifying your wife this really helped me in the the early days because I just I put everything on my myself you know I just go okay if there's something in my wife that is off then I go well that's on me I'm supposed to Shepherd and lead the family and help her get out of that I mean not to embarrass her but like when we first got married you know I'd already been on missions trips and everything else and Lisa had never met a poor person really she lived in you know Malibu oh my gosh I'm like this teen California and uh and and so when we got married it was like whoa she really doesn't she's because she lived a very sheltered life like she wasn't allowed to go out of that you know Malibu Agora Oak Park like Rich area because you know there's there's dangerous people and um so it wasn't her fault it's just the way she was raised and so you know when when i' get into giving like hey I we don't just give 10% we got to give more than that come on you know like we we got to just give there's people in need or whatever and and she's just like I was just raised to give 10% of my income to God and that's it I'm like that just seems weak you know let's just let's just give there's people dying come on you know and uh but I realized you know what that's my job and remember someone asked me you know it was in the early days hey can you come speak for an event and you know and it was in Mexico and I was like okay yes if you let me bring my wife and then just kind of take us on a spontaneous tour and show her some poor people you know and uh you but I I looked at I go well that's my job I I want to sanctify her I want her to see the rest of the world and and you know we've had amazing amazing Journeys in fact you weren't there but you know some of you guys saw that presentation Kevin Kim kind of walk through the history of the church and he just showed this one picture from Ethiopia and I don't know if you guys remember seeing it some of you guys saw the slide I wish I could show now but it's like she was glowing you were just beaming you were with with Miss Betty Dr Betty and and it was just like ah just so full of life I remember the first time when uh you know I took her to Uganda and I was doing a pastor's conference and using my gift and uh in teaching pastors and So Lisa was using her gift in in shopping and she would take these orphans out shopping for shoes and she came back just in tears but like beaming like to to take these shoes that are like two sizes too small and toes are sticking out and and to buy shoes and put them on like it was just such an honor i' never seen her so happy like just so full of life because there's something about that see see there's something that that that's part of my role is to bring her to the sanctification because that's what Jesus did for me so I just look at what Jesus did for me and I go okay I'm just do that for her it's not complicated it's just crazy difficult I'd much rather just submit anyways um I want Lisa to come up for a second can you just say a few words about I know just to husbands see even her head covering is very fashionable thank you um sorry hold on I have to I wrote a couple notes down because I have never been a husband but I have tried to lead now and then it doesn't work out very well um yeah I'm trying to think of which what I want to share first because as we were worshiping and we were singing that you know I have decided to follow Jesus I was just thinking about um I mean it's such a sweet declaration and yeah when Francis was saying it too like the world behind me and when we talk especially about anything it's kind of like how I started my talk last week that we're so affected by the world in ways that we really don't even actually understand and know and and I was thinking man even in when we think about husbands I was like there's plenty of young amazing husbands who are thinking that they're being more honoring or a good husband by kind of like acquiescing or just um like I'm going to be Progressive and I I just was like sitting there thinking the Lord never calls us to be Progressive he calls us to be steadfast and immovable steadfast and immovable you read the letters to the churches in Revelation and what does it say at EV at the end of every single one it's like hold fast to the one who holds fast to me to my ways they're going to receive the reward I mean there's you can read them they're amazing you can sit on the throne with Christ like no I don't want I don't get to sit on the throne it's crazy blessing but but be careful because even for you young guys and who aren't even married yet you may have these ideas in your head that well I can't actually really believe what the scripture says that I have to lead and that my wife needs to come under me yes you can and you do because we're not called to be Progressive we're called to be steadfast and a able um and last week I shared just those three things for women to be diligent be still be gracious and so I was praying about it because he just asked me was it yesterday to share a couple things and so I said Lord what do you want me to say and there's three things um husbands be careful be confident and be humble be careful because I thought you know you do want to be careful to listen to the Lord for sure but also to your wife we do see things that you can't always see we do bring something to the table it's different I have different perspectives I have different discernment pay attention to those patterns of discern and insights that your wife carries and recognize how helpful that can be to you she is given to you as a helpmate and so God has given you a good gift in your wife and so you want to be careful to recognize that even when you ultimately have to make a decision that she doesn't necessarily agree with um that being said please be confident don't hold back from doing what you truly believe is right before the Lord we need you to be strong and courageous because God has designed you for a reason in that way you know I said last week that I want to be the armor Bearer like I want the armor Bearer heart with Jonathan when they're about to go up and I you know I'm with you heart and soul but I'm saying husbands you be the Jonathan like that's who God created you to be full of Faith ready to go fully believing that God is Sovereign and good and he's got your back and it's like well I don't know exactly how it's going to turn out right leadership is very blind sometimes it's like man there's these two choices or I just don't know but just have a Jonathan heart like you know what honey okay we've talked it through I was careful to listen okay I'm you know what this is what we're going to do we're going to go up because God's got us let's go and we need you to do that and to be that man and the last one is be humble because no one likes a prideful leader I mean it's just a lot harder when there's a prideful leader right a prideful boss when you're right give glory to God and even when you're wrong learn from it and give glory to God his grace is sufficient for you and I was thinking about this like there are sometimes husbands I've seen shrink maybe even over time because of a bad decision or wow we listened to what I wanted to do and that's really put us in a bad spot or whatever it is but carrying shame or timidity or self deprecation like well some leader I am you know that's actually just false humility that's Pride false humility gets you nowhere but true humility is just to say wow okay I blew it or this didn't work out how I thought it would but that's okay because God is going to see us through and I am going to believe that his grace is sufficient for me and I too am going to believe that he causes all things to work together for good you don't have to lead perfectly but you do have to lead you do have to lead and it blesses us when you do I think about um we' been married maybe seven or eight years and Francis had gone to Africa and he comes home we have two children we're in a 2,000 squ foot home which isn't you know terribly large but Francis comes back and is like I want to downsize let's sell our house and move into something much smaller and I was like what the heck are you talking about um and I still can visualize him like laying on the couch and he's I think about this with the be careful because I could see the wrestle in him like he's asking me to do something that is so hard for me but he feels so compelled by the Lord like he saw those little kids eating out of the dumpsters and you'd think it would be enough that he told me about it but it wasn't it was like I wasn't there it wasn't in my heart and I'm like why do we have to sell our home I don't get it and ultimately with you know he did the be confident this is what we're going to do I really believe that God has called us to this so we sell our home and you guys it's literally in half we moved into a 1,000 foot home so I literally had to get rid of half of our things and it was like well out of my pieces of furniture sure I like the this half let's get rid of that like it was a little bit of a painful process right and we move into that home and all the way up until like the actual Obedience of it it was very hard for me but I can't tell you like what it says about the sanctifying her like it did it Sanctified me so much and it like ripped out this stake in the world that I didn't even know was there and it just released me in like the most powerful way and I think what if he had never done that what if he had just well I just need to listen to Lisa she doesn't want to do it I'm so glad he didn't listen to me and he pushed and he did what was right and what what was good and right before the Lord but also for me and for my heart and I'm so grateful for that there's been many times I could tell you but um yeah and just the humility then we got to share in going to Africa like I don't know how long it was afterward it was within a a year or two and of course once I'm there I was like wow God thank you for just letting me have the heart to obey because I told him I can't lie to you and say I want to do this but I will follow you I will do it but it's not in my heart and it's like the lord gave me the heart later and so ladies sometimes well sorry now I'm talking to the ladies too but trust the Lord in that God God has got you so okay let me uh just hit the ending real quick not real quick let me take a little bit of time verse 28 to me this is the most fascinating part of for me personally I mean it's all great but verse 28 in the same way husbands should love their wives as their own bodies he who loves his wife loves himself for no one ever hated his own flesh but nourishes and cherishes it just as Christ does the church because we are members of his body to me that is one of the most beautiful like and also even hard to believe Passages at the end when he says no one ever ha his own flesh but nourishes and cherishes it just as Christ does to us the church because we are members of his body like do you really believe that right now you know it's like if I just slammed my arm on this and I broke my arm in half I I just be like you know like oh did I do that was stupid oh I I would just do everything to fix this you know someone we got a bunch of doctors here just fix this thing help me help me help me this is my arm do I think of myself as that type of extension of Christ where Christ looks at me and go oh there's there's Francis he's he's suffering right now he's hurting right now ah it hurts me to see him like that do I see myself as a member of the body of Christ and that he looks at me the same way I look at my arm well that's a part of me I I don't say oh well too bad for you you know I that's that's stupid that's me and that's the way he view this is an Incredible God we have that he would look at us as church as truly as his body and he goes well I'm not going to hate you I'm going to nourish I'm going to cherish you and and so if that is true what you got to remember Ephesians is not about us it is all about him and it's in light of the fact that he sees me as an extension of him and I'm a part of his body the very least I could do is look at Leisa and if she's hurting then I'm hurting she's an ension of me now she's a member of my body and so God almighty God would humble himself sacrifice so that I could be made whole pure blameless spotless now he says do that for your wife see it's it's it's our response to this amazing God and then he closes it in verse 31 this passage therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife and the two shall become one flesh this mystery is profound and I am saying that it refers to Christ and the church however Let each one of you love his wife as himself and let the wife see that she respects her husband he explains right here this whole Passage is not about Lisa and my marriage that's not what the mystery is here he goes the profound mystery is not that that Lisa left her mom and dad and married me and I left my my stepmom and married her it's it's a the mystery is profound and I'm saying it refers to Christ in the church what's the mystery here the mystery is exactly what just explained I'm literally a member of Christ's body and his Spirit literally lives in me right now how in the world can there be a holy holy holy God who dwells in unapproachable light whom no one has seen or can see and yet all of that Glory all of that power is one with me and fills me and we become one flesh and now I'm a member of his body you've got to be kidding me he goes That's a profound mystery and now my job is to display that to the world through my relationship with my wife to where I serve her sacrifice for her and show that we are one she hurts I hurt I Rejoice she rejoices it's we're one we're one that's why the Bible says God hates divorce because this is our this was the picture of Christ in the church this was his creation from day one and we fight for this we live for this and uh um if I want this profound mystery in my life of being one with the spirit then I need to love my wife as Christ loves the church and Lisa needs to come under my leadership just as we come under the leadership of Christ and so that's what leads to Spirit-filled life and you know even this evening as I sitting there again and got my son leading Us in worship and two of my daughters and some random guy but uh our friend Elliot whom we love um but uh there's just such this awesome like H I'm being led in the presence of God by my son you know how freaking awesome that is to know that a Spirit-filled marriage was used to create a Spirit-filled family and I just sitting there daydreaming I'm like gosh I wonder if I'll live to the day when Lily and Daisy and Anna Lead Me In Worship with Silas CU he's like a grand kid um John buddy um where I just think man God could I live to that this is what we're after right it's like what are we fighting about let's tremble at his word let's become husbands those servants that God's called us to be wives be that picture of a church that trusts the leadership of Jesus by displaying that with your husband" [00:04:50]