Embracing Christian Unity Through Love and Truth

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"Well, I think it's because I was realizing how much this topic is emphasized in scripture so so early on I think there were certain topics that I liked certain topics the denomination I was a part of you know would would focus on but I think every year I'm trying to take a a clean look at the scriptures and go okay what does God repeat over and over and what are the things he seems to emphatically speak about like what where does he use the strongest words because I'm trying to care about what he cares about and honestly I as a human being I don't naturally care that much about Unity." [00:05:21]

"Yeah, I mean, I mean there are, I don't want to generalize it but like two types of people there are those who are very into Doctrine and they just assume that any pursuit of unity is you're pursuing Unity at the expense of Truth and so they'll use that phrase anytime Unity is brought up then there's another group that's on the opposite side of the spectrum and they will they really will just pursue unity and not care too much about Doctrine and my point is gosh if you're a real doctrinal person that just loves the word of God seeks the word of God you've got to see it in Scripture that there are strong strong commands towards unity and very strong commands against anyone that would create that Division." [00:07:38]

"Um, the way I'm understanding it I'm I'm praying for like like what Jesus prayed for which is, which seems hyperbolic seems almost impossible except that he prayed it to the father and he says in John 17 21 that they may all be one just as you father are in me and I in you that they also may be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me the glory that you have given me I've given to them that they may be one even as we are one so right there we're not talking about a shallow of oh hey let's get on a podcast every once in a while and and get along no he's he's using the Trinity he's going God you know how you and I are perfectly one I want them to be one with us I want them all to be one just as so this is in incredible Bond uh the father and the son so when you want to understand Unity I say look to the Trinity look to the Father the Son the Holy Spirit and look at how they became perfectly one that's a Unity that I'm talking about." [00:12:06]

"Yeah and and this is this is probably stuff that's over my head as most things are I I don't have an answer to that um I don't I don't believe denominations themselves are the cause of division I mean they they can cause division but I don't think that's the cause of it at the end of the day to me the biggest problem is not that there are so many denominations I think it's weird and I think the Next Generation even thinks it's weirder and uh I think eventually it's it's gonna I mean that's where we got to non-denominational churches and now this next generation is even more anti-denomination so but to me that's not the issue to me." [00:22:42]

"I mean what we do I think number one I mean we are called to love we are called the show Mercy as God is merciful like I I need to apologize even right now like I'm thinking okay we're doing this podcast um I'm having conversation with you two uh am I loving you do I care about you guys I haven't I'll be honest I haven't thought of you as human beings I mean I know you are I know you're real even though I'm looking at you through a screen but um do I think of you as my brothers that Christ died for and he wants us to be one like do I have any do I even know what's going on in your life right now I don't I don't you could be going through a horrible time right now we have like five minutes before this you know get everything here and that's a problem I mean I get it this is a podcast where we're all busy and let's let's do this but the problem is if I'm honest I I haven't really thought about you I didn't pray for you before this started." [00:26:25]

"Yeah so so my greatest times of prayer are when I take some time before I pray and actually think about who I'm speaking to and that's why the word is so important so don't just make up some view of God like I think he's like this I think who cares what you think he has told us what he is like and he explains himself as this God who dwells in unapproachable light and and you read in Revelation of his throne and the lightning the Thunder the fire the angels and so I try to imagine that I try to just picture this being sitting on a throne lightning thunder fire everywhere and you know the Angels screaming your soul you're so holy and now I'm about to talk to him and I'm like you're gonna listen to me and he tells me that I can approach that throne with confidence because it's a throne of grace and he tells me that that being him he loves me and so now I'm just like picture in my head whether I'm on my knees you know I could be on my knees on my face and you know on the ground just imagining being Before the Throne knowing that he hears me and just goes God you're so good why am I here why have you done so much for me what what there's no one like you and and I'll just talk to him but that's very different from just kind of closing your eyes and you know God thanks for this day thanks for uh cross things you know like you're not even thinking about who you're addressing." [00:38:13]

"Yeah, I know that's great first you know I had a great time as a pastor of a mega church I was probably the happiest mega church pastor around I mean I loved it from day one I mean I was just at that church last Sunday um and just being back in the building again just this flood of memories um still have dear dear friends there that I got to connect with over the last few days and so you can understand those early days were awesome unbelievable the growth and I I loved it I loved it all the way till the end at the end it got a little rough because I'm looking at like what I shared like the degree of love that God wants us to have and realizing I didn't I'm just now understanding that in scripture and realizing how important that is to God and I I I failed I know I failed in just wanting too much too soon um I don't know I it started to frustrate people it started to divide the church that was the first time I really saw division there was always people I get mad here and there but they're more of the outliers uh this was like starting to drive a wedge and it just broke my heart I I couldn't I didn't know how to lead the church into this deeper love and so some of the problem was me and so I was like well maybe if I had to leave this could get better." [00:45:30]

"Yeah, I think about what's what Paul says about the Sabbath and how some see one day as holy and others the other day you know some say every day is the same and and I find myself in that passage going okay Paul tell us which one it is you know because you're an apostle lay it out and that seems like a big deal um Sabbath seems like a big one to me uh because that's from the beginning and what are we supposed to do how can we you know yet somehow Paul speaks of it as almost like there's some freedom and maybe even what's right for this guy may not be right for it's it's a little bit too uh uh gray for my likes you know my liking and and so I get it I'm I'm that type of person and when it comes I I also see though in scripture there are those things that are sin issues um and other things that are like these finer points of theology does not have to do with sin um I I think the sin is something we have to keep confronting and we are willing to part ways I mean I believe I'm very strong on those things I don't know of anyone else who's uh you know publicly um you know I I've excommunicated people for divorcing their wives improperly uh for the wrong reason or those types of things where you know I've." [00:50:28]

"Yeah, I just left it I we we once they leave our church uh we just Let It Go I mean they're no longer for us um I don't know if that's the right thing or not um again I I'm trying to think I I'm trying to think what the elders you know we took our stand we said look here's what we see as Cornerstone churches our best understanding of scripture and they're like okay well then I'm out of here um I we felt like our job was done at that point and letting them know look we love you and we just we take you back in a second we just can't let this go on and I've looked at friends and said look if you keep sleeping with that girl I can't even have lunch with you I I don't want to you know it's it's that extreme but you gotta understand like it's out of love like I want you to come back and in a second that I'm just Bound by this book and yet once they leave and as long as they know of my love for them and know why I'm saying what I'm saying is that is my best understanding of what he wants in the church once they leave I feel like my responsibility in that sense is is done I still love them I still pray for them I still pray for people who walked away from the church decades ago." [00:57:48]

"Yeah, I I would say I agree um the main thing I would say is okay a lot of people look at John 17 and just go that's a Unity passage but it's it's it's not primarily and from my understanding of it my reading of it about our Unity with each other it is primarily about this incredible Unity we can have with holy God that is so fascinating to think wait a second you just described God as being on the throne and dwelling in unapproachable lightness Thunder this fire and now you're saying or Christ is saying that he wants us to be perfectly one with him like that's anyway so so I'm not just in front of this throne of grace I am somehow welcomed into this why and this this relationship with a being who is so fascinating and so holy and and unless you get that and unless you wake up and just Marvel and go how can this be how can I be one with you like I'm abiding in you in your love and and when you just recognize you have a fear of the Lord and now you're one with him abiding in him and then suddenly you're realizing other people believe the same thing about themselves and they are one with God that's when the unity is going to come but if we try to skip over the great command of loving God with all our hearts soul mind and strength and we just want to talk Doctrine or try to figure out activities or things we can do to get to know one another better um it's just not going to happen Unity is going to be those who are fascinated by their Oneness with the holy God." [01:02:32]

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